Kristen

Welcome to this week's Close the Chapter Podcast. I am delighted you're here with us today, we are going to be exploring authenticity, kind of how we get a sense of belonging, and the journey to get there because we know it's not as easy as just be authentic, and everything's going to just flow from there. We know there's so much more to it. And we've kind of used this authentic buzzword around. So we're going to kind of deconstruct that we're going to look at how do we gain a sense of belonging within ourselves? And then how does that translate into a sense of belonging with others? So without further ado, I'd love to introduce my guests refer to a song Did I say the last name correctly, it's pristine Besim. I was close and my brain glitches when it comes to like pronunciation. So I appreciate your patience with me getting it just right. So welcome to the close the chapter podcast.

Ritu

Thank you so much for having me.

Kristen

I'm so glad you're here to talk all things authenticity, let's and belonging. Because you've got two books tell us about the journey to focusing your work on authenticity and belonging.

Ritu

I have had quite a winding road, I would say in my journey to claim belonging. I am the daughter of Indian immigrant parents. And so my parents immigrated from India to now Canada over 50 years ago, and I live in Canada. And I have a quintessential story of being a child of immigrants, where I watched my parents struggle in a front row seat to watching them struggle in so many ways. And it hurt me a lot to see them go through that experience. But I also had my own experiences with confronting inequities growing up. And so when I was young, around the age of 11, my parents moved us from a very working class, actually quite diverse neighborhood that was on the inside of Toronto, it was like the inner city. And they moved us to a really homogeneous, white, extremely affluent neighborhood outside of the city, which was a massive financial stretch for them to do that. And they did it because they wanted us essentially to access better education and social networks and experiences that they didn't have as new immigrants to the country. And all of that was borne out comments that I endured years and years of relentless racist childhood bullying that was also classist and intersected with being a smart girl at the time, making like late 80s, early 90s. And so from a young age, I learned that something was wrong with me that I shouldn't be who I am, that I'm broken, and that I should mask what actually sets me apart makes me unique in favor of conformity to the dominant cultural way of being. And I took this way of life and with being which actually was a really good coping mechanism into my adulthood, when I joined the Most High conforming profession out there, or one of them, the legal profession, I became a lawyer. And I worked in the big towers, and I spent 10 years in the legal profession, first practicing and then doing talent management. But what I noticed in the corporate world and the legal profession is that the messages around conformity were never as direct and overt when I was being bullied as a child, but they were there. And so while I became really successful, in my mid 30s, if you had asked me, How do you feel about your life, I would have said to you, I'm actually deeply unhappy. It took me a while to actually finally name it. But I could finally say, I'm really unhappy. And it's happened and I essentially committed to changing how I live to transforming my life, so that I could stand in my power claim my belonging be who I am, and live a life filled with as much joy as possible because I deserve it. That is a really quick overview of my journey of learning how to belong and why teaching others about how to claim belonging, it's so important. This is such

Kristen

a deep dive because all of us can relate. You have your own unique journey. But conformity is we're conditioned in so many ways to conform, in order to feel like to fight the shame, to fight the rejection, abandonment, so we're taught, do these things and you'll be lovable, likeable, worthy and valued. So tell me about how you started the journey of kind of deconstructing conformity. And where did that all begin?

Ritu

It's interesting because despite experiencing all the hurtful and hateful things that were coming my way as a child, and moving from a place of being a really spunky, outgoing, confident little girl, and I talk about this a lot in my new book, we've got this unlocking the beauty of belonging that I came into this world as a firecracker like I was a firecracker. But the problem is that the weight of the world and the negative messaging and the hurtful messaging started to take me down and a road map I inherent sense of confidence and self worth and self love. And I always knew, despite all the negative stuff coming my way, and the pain I was carrying inside me, I always knew that first I was experiencing injustice, I knew that what was happening to me was wrong. Like, it wasn't like I was like, Oh my gosh, yes, like I deserve to be bullied. And thank you so much for like actually recognizing what a loser I am. It was always like, This is wrong. I felt powerless in the face of it to do anything. So that's the first thing. The second thing is that a part of me always knew I deserved more. And that I knew that I had a spark inside of me, I always held those two truths. While everything was happening, I'm thinking back to how my teenage years were like in the 90s, when we didn't have the internet really, and really slash at all, ad or I certainly didn't know of it. And we didn't have self help apps. We didn't have mobile phones. What we had was TV talk shows, and books. And that is exactly what I did as someone who really nerdy, like really smart, nerdy, but also hungry to be better. Even in my teenage years. I did what we did in the 90s I watched a shit ton of Oprah, and other self help shows devoured them. And then any books they refer to, I would read them so like I remember being like 1516 years old and reading the Seat of the Soul by Gary Zhukov and I barely understanding any of it, but it was like that's okay, because I'm reading it. And when I started to realize as Wow, there's a community of people out there who are hurting to I am not alone. So by the time I hit my 20s, I was 20 years old. I'm in college university in Canada. And I saw a poster for free counseling on campus. And I had already known about the value and benefits of counseling therapy because of reading all the books and watching Queen Oh, and so I decided to do it. Now here's what's really interesting, Kristen. So when I say like, I was 20 years old, this would have been like 1995 going to therapy was number one unheard of. And number two, like no one talked about it, there was so much stigma. And I remember walking into the student center, I'm 20 years old to go to my first appointment. And I make sure that very few people are in the hallway, and no one I recognize, and I make a beeline for the therapy office. Whereas now it'd be like a no thing. I mean, it was a thing. I didn't tell you when I was really doing it, or a few people I told. But that experience at the age of 20, for me unlocked a continued healing journey. And you know, it's like I'm now in my late 40s. And I think about how I've had 30 years, almost 30 years of therapy. Like there's only a few one year periods in those 30 years that I have not had therapy. But even those years I was reading and I'm doing weekend retreats and my journaling. I'm a seeker, and I desire to be better. And so for those of you joining today, where you're like, I want to live better. And I just don't know how and I'm really struggling and My words are resonating with you. One of the greatest things that I have learned along my journey is that for some people, a massive thing happens a cataclysmic experience that or not, could be cataclysmic, or it could be like a massive, transformative, life altering positive experience happens. That thrusts people into this ultimate new way of living. That was not my experience, my experience has been that it's like one building block on top of another and one small shift, and then another small shift. And I'm still in my journey along my journey to heal and be better. But what I can tell you as someone who deeply struggled with feeling joy in our life, feeling like I belonged feeling worthy is that I have now crossed over to the other side. And it feels so beautiful. And it's still a journey, because I have shitty days too. And I this past weekend, I got in a very bad argument with my spouse, and I was not my best. And I was like, That is not who I want to be. And then I'm reminding myself I've I still have trauma inside me, I absorbed all kinds of negative messaging, I'm a work in progress. And life is a journey. But we continue to do these little shifts so that ultimately, we crossover. And we continue on our journey. And so what's like one small thing that you can change about how you're living after today to stand more in your power or to heal the woundedness within? Or to be more of who you are the small changes the shifts that matter? Is this resonating, Chris? Yes,

Kristen

totally. Because I think this is the journey for all of us. There's no finish line, and we're like, we're never gonna struggle with that again. That's the misnomer about self help people think, Well, I've been in therapy and why does this still bother me? Because you're human. Yeah. And different experiences will activate different parts of you that you thought, Oh, I thought I was over this and then all of a sudden you're right back there. And hey, and I think all of us humanizing ourselves and acknowledging that is so helpful to other people to feel less alone.

Ritu

You got it. Yes.

Kristen

I'm looking at your journey and I'm like, okay, You were the attorney, you're the corporate, you seemingly had it all. I mean, kind of

Speaker 3

getting the corporate dream like on all make money, right?

Kristen

When did you have this awakening? That's I know it's a slow awakening, a slow unfolding. But to get the courage to leave that position, people get scared. They're like, what am I going to do? What about the money? How did you get to that point where you said, I need to make a change.

Ritu

So there were a few things that happened that I share. Again, in my book, we've got this, and my first book, The authenticity principle. But in a nutshell, what ultimately ended up happening for me that led me to be like, No, I am changing my life is that my body started to scream, I am not happy, I am not good. You are through poseen, you are not good, we are not good. We are not good. And so it's interesting when we map my journey along what has happened in research in society around acceptance of us as humans not being mind based creatures, but actually being body based creatures. So in the 80s, and 90s, when I was younger I was supposed to do, I focused a lot on the mind. And so I read books, and I did talk therapy and the 2000s. I did talk therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy and journal then I went to retreats and self coached and all of that. And that was in alignment with what we knew back then around how to heal. And when I say we knew, mainstream culture knew, because here's the thing, I come from Indian culture, I come from an ancient indigenous culture that new 1000s of years ago, that healing isn't a mind thing. Primarily, it is a body based experience, because I come from the seat of where yoga was created. And a lot of the breath work that we do today. And mindfulness practices stem from the 1000s of years of ancestral experiences that are in my genetics and bloodline. So many cultures around the world already knew this. But I would say here in Canada and the US, in the Anglo rooted world, it's like there was an awakening research, in many respects, appropriation of ancient indigenous practices, of moving more towards being body based. Here's what I would say, I can't even tell you the modalities of therapy I have done and the type of healing experiences I've had, like, you name it, I've probably tried it. And what I can tell you that really helped me to tap into deepening my trauma healing has been me focusing on my body. So by the time I hit my early 30s, I was really good on the mind based stuff because this is what was on Vogue, it was on trend. It was what was happening. But it wasn't until I started to realize my body is screaming that I'm unhappy. So what do I mean by that? Everyone? And I'm talking about this, and we've got this, I had lived through decades of digestive problems. And I have been poked and prodded for just about everything, and then told you know what? You've got IBS. Which I mean, I don't even know do I have it? Do I not have it now, because of all the healing work that I've done a guy largely say I've healed my digestive problems through all of my deep trauma work, and making some shifts in how I eat. I clenched my teeth so hard at night, I cracked a tooth, my hair stopped growing for months. I remember that in my 30s. But the thing that tipped me over into what is going on with me, and actually unlocked for me, my body based healing journey is there I was working in the corporate towers in the legal profession. And I started to have excruciating lower back pain, which should not have been happening because I was young in my 30s and worked out and was active and all of that. Anyways, long story short, I go to a few different therapists, healer types, like physiotherapist, and Cairo and Baba. And all of them said the same thing. You need to strengthen your core. And so you should try Pilates or yoga. And I was like, You know what, like, I'm a brown girl and my people like technically invented yoga. And so I think I'm going to do yoga and pilates because it's how hard can this be like my people invented it, it's in my bloodline, whatever. And I go to my first yoga class, and I'm like, the only brown person and it's all a bunch of white people. And I'm like, What is this so challenging? And I was like, this is not natural for me. This is so hard, but it felt good. And so I kept doing it doing it. Long story short, years later, did I not find myself in on a yoga mat in the south of India, doing my first yoga teacher training certification? Because I just fell in love with the practice. And when I say practice, I don't mean the asana practice. I mean, like yogic way of living, yoga, being union, a holistic way of living was already how I was living more or less because of my cultural upbringing, my parental upbringing, but there were aspects of it. I wasn't tuning into because I viewed yoga as the more of a stretch experience and a cool thing we did to back then to fitness and that type of experience as opposed to no this is like a way to release and discharge energy and tap into my body. And so that experience of learning to really go within and tune in and recognize, well, I'm feeling stressed, or I feel agitation, I feel sensation in my chest. And actually, if I take a step back, I'm noticing I'm taking shallow breaths. And actually, if I dig even deeper, I'm feeling pain in my left scab. And actually, in my mind, I'm saying all kinds of negative things to myself right now about myself. I'm not happy in this moment, let me tune in, and what am I going to do about this? That's really where my deep healing kicked in, and has profoundly transformed how I live. And again, I'm a work in progress. I know I have so much more to go. Like even before we came on today, I just had feeling so stressed all morning, because I'm behind a bunch of things I have so much work to do, I haven't filed my taxes, I'm like, my home was a mess. I just came off of writing a book a two year period. And so many aspects of my life are not organized. And I'm struggling to keep on top of things. And there's a lot of negative self talk in my head about it, I feel the stress in my body. And I still know the tools and I'm supposed to use those tools. But I'm human, the coin is that I'm still better situated than I was years ago, when I wasn't tuned in does that connect with you Christian

Kristen

body work is essential, I think because we know the trauma, those unprocessed emotions is in your body. And it needs to come up and out to free you. And so we can be frozen in time. So if you've had a trauma five, you're kind of all of that is frozen in the nervous system. And Yoga is a great way to unfreeze it and move it up and out. So I'm a firm believer in it. And I think it can be transformative.

Ritu

And even how about this, because then we've got this I talk a lot about emotional release, and how we learn as adults to override. And as humans the ability to override our emotions, unlike other animals that do not have that ability. And it's both a blessing and a curse in some respects. Because when we override our autonomic responses to experiences, and we don't come back to releasing them from our bodies, they can get trapped in our bodies. And this is what ultimately leads to the dysregulation of nervous system, which I've talked quite a bit about, across all the stuff I do. I didn't realize this now that I know this, now that I know this when I feel like I need to cry, I just cry. Or how about this. Sometimes I want to cry during the middle of the workday or I'm in a meeting or I'm on a stage speaking or I'm in a place where I'm like, I can't become unraveled right now. But that's okay. Because here's the thing, I can come back to it. And so I'm going to leave you with the following takeaway everyone. After today, the next time you notice that in your body, there's like an automatic desire to do something, shake, Twitch, tremble, cry, even scream, notice yourself saying no, not now. That's okay, clock that moment. And then I'm going to invite you to come back to that moment at night, on the weekend, like whenever you have some private time. And when I say come back to the moment, like lie down on your couch, be in your bed, like you're in the bathtub, taking a bubble bath, wherever it is, whatever it is, take yourself back to the moment and you know, you can help yourself again, some music, you light a candle, you can snuggle with your fur baby or whatever it is that you like, I love to cuddle with a heating pad because I find heat on my body helps to signal to my body, I'm safe and helps to ease into that discharge space. So whatever it is that you need, and then take yourself back to the moment and see what feelings come up that clock the sensation in your body and think about what's in your mind. And then as the emotion starts to come up, let it out and just let it out and just let it out in a non judgmental way. And so it's a bit like scheduling a pity party for yourself or crying party for yourself. And that's okay, or a shaking party or twitching party or like whatever it is. And that is okay. Because here's the thing, when we override our emotions in our like, no, not now, it's not like the emotion sensations disappear into the ether. And then we're done. And like by II, it's like they can get trapped in our bodies. And so my hope is that we have a world one day where the shame that we attach to certain emotions lifts and we can be in a place where in our workplaces, in our homes, in our relationships classrooms, we can honor the truth of how people actually feel because it is healthy, it is normal, it is needed for us to cry and to feel sad, and to feel tender and vulnerable and feel shame and insecure and angry. And it's important that we honor those that have these feelings and that we let them out.

Kristen

I had experience of this just to kind of bring this home for the listeners Yesterday, I went with a couple friends who are also therapists, by the way. So we're in the car, and I woke up and I just fell off, my body fell off, I fell off and I could tap in we were playing music in the car and all of a sudden just a wave of grief just came up with sadness. And I kind of wanted to retreat because I was like, I don't want to ruin the girls trip. I don't want to them to think that was wrong with me. I had all my younger parts online just feeling like oh, I shouldn't even share this. And then I was able to To listen to the music, get some courage up to be vulnerable, and share my sadness and what was going on and be transparent. And tell the shame story about my shame story was I'm going to ruin the trip. And you guys are gonna think I don't have it all together, you're gonna think, Whoa, what's judgment as we invite

Unknown Speaker

her who invited her?

Kristen

So then I was like, right of judgment. So I just said the shame story out loud. Yeah, like, oh my gosh, now I connect to you more because you're sharing more vulnerably in the tenderness. And it's not always received that way by other people's, I don't want to paint that picture like, and everybody can buy ours over it. And it was scary for me to share. And I want people to know, like, even as therapists, even as you're doing all this work, it can be scary to share what's really going on because we're afraid. Judgment. We're afraid of not being like, we're afraid of what people will think about us. And what do you say to that as we kind of wrap up? Because I think that's the number one thing that prevents people from being authentic trauma, of course, our history, but this fear of rejection and people thinking, Oh, she's kind of got issues, what's wrong with her? So we don't want to show that side. So how do you help people move through the fear of what people think rejection and abandonment,

Ritu

I have so much to say about this. So first of all, what's fascinating is that for so long, I held the deep belief that if I revealed my vulnerabilities, my insecurities, my shame to people, they will like me less. And because of this, I came to armor up with what I call my PP, a armor, and PPA stands for positivity, perfection, achievement, and I thought, if I'm just positive and sunshine with you all the time, and I'm perfect at everything I do, and I'm achieve achieve achieve, then you won't judge me, then you won't take opportunities away, then you'll love me. And here's what I realized. That actually, that veneer that curated what I often call performing self mask performing in the sense of like, not high performance, but I'm like acting with you as opposed to being with you or you're acting who you think people want you to be as opposed to being who you are. What I realized is that first of all, people could clock I wasn't being me, because authenticity is a lot like a magnet, like we sense it and gauge it in others. It's an energetic vibration. That's the first thing. And then the second thing is this, that the more I started to reveal who I am and my shame and my pain, and how I'm journeying and struggling like everyone else is, the more people liked me, and the more they gravitated towards me, and it was the opposite effect. And why does this happen? So first of all, like why do we shield hide mask armor up with our PPA and our performing self mask all that we do this because of the fear of bias. And I can tell you based on my work and research in this space for years and years, it's a fear of bias, you're going to judge me, you're going to hate on me, you're not going to like me, that causes us to act this way. However, what I can also tell you since I've now come to the other side, because I was the queen of performing and the PPA like I invented the PPA like literally and that actually we feel the fear of being judged and we do it anyways. And we do it anyways because this is what leads to a joyful life. But let me break this down a bit more in order to experience belonging, be honored and accepted for who we are, we must commit to a life of authenticity by being who we are by being authentic. That is what unlocks belonging. Belonging is the outcome of being authentic. And in order to belong. First and foremost, we must belong to ourselves, listeners, you must belong to yourselves, which means you must be authentic with yourself, for yourself. You must know who you are, embrace who you are, and be who you are with your own self first and foremost. And this is what will inspire you and empower you to claim belonging with others and demand that others honor you for who you are. And when they don't. The response will not break your heart or maybe it will break your heart but you will say is that I live for me anyways as opposed to live for others because why you belong to yourself and others don't want to give you belonging fine, because you belong to yourself. I didn't know that I now know that talk a lot about this online in my books. But here's a takeaway for you all. How do we make this happen? Like how do we actually unlock this and make this happen? As you've been listening to me speak everyone. First of all, I'm going to invite you to claw what has been happening in your minds what sensation and emotions have you been feeling go through your body, breathing it in and breathing it out, just honoring whatever has been coming up. But what's one thing about yourself as I've been speaking that keeps coming up surfacing, what's one thing about yourself that you have not been sharing with others that you've been hiding or masking, changing? in that app, sure today, you'll start to reveal and it can be small. It doesn't have to be big. It can be how you dress it can be, you know what my comment about emotional release really resonated with you because you notice that like, you just do not cry ever or you constantly feel like the pressure to be like so happy and like so sunshiny. Even though you're not an average today, the one thing you're gonna start to do is tell your spouse, actually, I'm not fine. Or tell your leader I am not fine. I'm actually quite upset or when next time someone says to you, how are you instead of saying find good busy, you're gonna say actually really frazzled right now kids are driving me bananas, and I haven't bathed in four days. And and like, whatever just one thing about yourself, you're going to change after today, because again, most human behavior, it's not massive shifts zero to 60. In two seconds, it's micro behavioral shifts. That's one thing. And then as you do that, one thing, you'll start to do another thing, and you'll start to do another thing. And then what you'll notice is that it's this cascading effect of being who we are was so good and safe to do. And you'll think back to your journey, you'll be like, I can't even believe I wouldn't talk about ABC. And now I'm like, everyone knows ABC. And I'm going deeper. Like I'm on like, x, y, z. So one thing, just commit to one thing after today,

Kristen

I love it. One thing that feels more manageable, because we can intellectually think all this but it's another thing to actually have the courage to take the masks off, to be brave and say how you really feel fine feelings inside not expressed. So what are you not expressing that needs to come out and be released? This has been awesome. I love our conversation. Where can people find your books and more about you? Oh, bless.

Ritu

So first of all, you can find my books online, anywhere books are sold. We've got this unlocking the beauty of belonging the authenticity principle, which is all about how you live an authentic life, live, work and lead authentically. And you can connect with me online. My empowerment site is Rithy vicine.com. It's Ritsu our itu vicine B H A si n. Ruthie poseen.com. It's filled with free resources and tip sheets and checklists and videos and blogs. And how do you live a more authentic empowered life rooted and belonging and then connect with me across social media on almost every platform. My favorite places, though, I would say are Instagram, and LinkedIn. And then I have a truckload of videos on YouTube. So hopefully that helps. And everyone I love getting messages. So do not be shy, reach out.

Kristen

Awesome. What's one thing you want to just have people take away from our conversation or about your work one thing,

Ritu

here's one thing that I have been sitting with and thinking a lot about and actually feeling, I talk a lot about honoring the pain and the hurt that lives inside of us and releasing it and letting it go and offering it to the earth so that we can live a more joyful life. But one of the things that I have been playing with for myself and really deeply anchoring into is rebuilding my capacity to experience joy in my body. What I mean by that when I was a little kid, I remember like being young, young, young, and being joyful, like playing and eating sand and throwing sand and just laughing. And over time, that joy got smothered by pain, and then me denying the pain and acting happy as opposed to actually feeling happy and being happy. And the last few years have been really hard for me personally and professionally for myriad reasons. And what I've noticed is that I've done a really good job with all these hard things happening to honor the pain and release the pain. But what I haven't done as much that I'm now starting to do is really experience the joy in my body. So not just think joy like isn't like, wow, this is a really great moment. I'm with my friends on a girls trip. And this is so nice. And I love them. And I love this food. And isn't this mountain beautiful, which is often what I do with joy. And instead I'm like to help that rush of gratitude, rip through my heart center and through my chest into my belly. And now my eyes are starting to water. And I just feel warmth. And even actually, as I share this, I'm starting to feel the whoosh inside me. Oh, yeah, it's here. Just feeling gratitude and actually feeling it in the body and being with that joy so that we no longer just thinking joy, revealing it in our body. That's my takeaway. Everyone, honor your pain, let it out. But also let the wash of joy in case you

Kristen

that is so good. That's a great reminder, because I can identify with what you're saying. I totally can because we have so much going on. And we're so busy. We're doing this and we're doing that, that we can think about the joy but to actually embody and integrate it into your heart center into your nervous system into your body itself. You got it periods. Yeah. So I love that reminder. So thank you so much for your work. Go get the books, and check out your website and thank you for your time and your energy. Yay. That's so exciting.

Ritu

Thank you, Kristen, for having me. Thank you listeners for joining us reach out again. I love getting messages and be well thank you