Kristen

Welcome to the Close the Chapter podcast. I am Kristen Boice a licenced Marriage and Family Therapist with a private practice pathways to healing counselling. Through conversations, education, strategies and shared stories. We will be closing the chapter on all the thoughts, feelings, people and circumstances that don't serve you anymore. And open the door to possibilities and the real you. You won't want to miss an episode, so be sure to subscribe. Welcome to this week's close the chapter podcast. I am so happy you're here with us this week. I know you have such limited time on what you want to listen to read pay attention to. So I'm so thankful that you're here with us today for this important episode. We're going to be talking about high functioning anxiety. What is it? How do we work through it? And all the ins and outs of understanding yourself. So if this might be something that piques your curiosity, I highly recommend you stay tuned. And then share this with a friend or a family member or co worker, someone that you think might benefit from understanding what is high functioning anxiety. We're going to kind of weave in transitions as we talk about high functioning anxiety. But without further ado, I want to welcome my guest, Nancy Jane Smith, welcome to the close the chapter podcast.

Nancy

Thanks for having me.

Kristen

I am so glad you're here. We just kind of clicked right out of the gate. We're both Rene brown trained, we're talking about our training and how that went. And I was telling Nancy that on her website, there is a blurb that I love. She doesn't know what I'm going to read yet. So I'm going to read the blurb and then we're going to talk a little bit more about DNC story and how she got into really focusing on high functioning anxiety. So here's what she wrote that I think will resonate with you as the audience. Why am I so passionate about high functioning anxiety? For much of my adult life, I live a double life at work and with friends. I was very social, happy, professional and light hearted. But as soon as the doors to my house closed, I was alone. I was consumed with self doubt. How many of you are already like saying yes, I resonate with this. I had an internal commentaries constantly telling me how I can improve myself what I was doing wrong, and how the outside world would find out if I wasn't careful. I always felt like even the privacy of my own home cameras were watching me. And everyone would find out that I was lazy, antisocial and obsessive thinking freak, the challenge of this internal commentary was that underlying message was if I were a better person, this just gets me because I can still resonate with this. If I was a better person. If I tried harder or somehow crack the code. I wouldn't be so miserable. Perfection was in my reached. I just needed to push harder. What do you feel what I read that out loud now, as you're hearing it back? Yeah.

Nancy

What is funny is it very relatable today, we're recording this on a Monday and my husband and I have what we call Monday's monger Mondays, which monger you'll hear is my word for the inner critic. Because my inner critic, that monger comes out so hard on Mondays, because this is the day I'm supposed to hit it hard and do all the things and be perfect. Because I've held myself anything that's come into my brain that I should be doing. I'm like, I'll wait till Monday. Well, now it's Monday. And so I can get very overwhelmed on Mondays with that. So it's I have to do my own work. Even years of studying this stuff.

Kristen

Yes, I so relate to that. And then the Sundays is kind of like the dread of the Monday and it's read of the week. What do they call that? What are we the Sunday scaries this Sunday? scaries you get that?

Nancy

I don't get the Sunday scaries because I put it all off on Monday. That makes sense to me. Like that's why the Monday feels like it does. Yes, exactly. Yeah.

Kristen

So tell me about your journey into really unpacking, unfolding and diving into high functioning anxiety. And then we'll talk about what is high functioning anxiety. Exactly.

Nancy

It's really been an interesting journey. It started back in 2017. And my dad died. And I had taken care of him. He had Parkinson's with dementia. We were very close. He was like my biggest fan. Literally, I just loved him to death. But the one thing was he had this inner critic that he was 78 when he died and he still felt like he was a failure even though he had successful kids and he built his own business and he had this wonderful house this beautiful wife and 50 years of marriage and but he still had the things his monger that inner critic was still running the show and I realised oh my gosh, that's me. And around that same time I had been teaching about the Mongar about inner critic and how to deal with it. Number one says and this does go into high functioning anxiety because I'll shortcut and then I'll go back out people with high functioning anxiety have very loud mongers. They have an critic that is like a demon who is driving their every whim and feeding that line. If if you could do it perfectly, everything will be okay. And so I went on this mission to figure out how do I quiet this monger voice? And everything out there was about love yourself no matter what, and have self compassion and no freaking clue what that even meant? How am I supposed to love myself when I have so much stuff I want to do and I need to be better. And my whole life, I've heard how I need to be better. And so how do I reconcile that I came up with these three characters. And one is the manga, which is the inner critic. And then the second is the BFF, which is my version was my version of self compassion. And the BFF is like, do whatever you want. So I've cracked myself down so hard with a monger all week long, telling me work harder, go faster, or even if I could crack it down till five o'clock at night, and then it was, oh, let's have some wine. Let's bring in the BFF. So that it's three glasses of wine and a chocolate cake and potato chips late at night, because my things tend to be alcohol and food related, or would be procrastination, that my BFF would tell me, don't worry about that. That's why I can push it off to Mondays because my BFF comes in Sunday night to tell me not to worry about it. So that was my version of self compassion. So it just wasn't really working. And so I realised there's this middle ground. And it's this biggest fan voice. And so the biggest fan voice is the voice of I call it the voice of self loyalty. And I like the word self loyalty. Because my clients and myself, were great at being loyal to others. So we know what that means. Because our monger tells us if we're loyal to other people, then we'll be better people ourselves. And we'll finally quit feeling crappy about ourselves. But we don't know how to be loyal to ourselves to have our own backs really be there no matter what, even when it's hard. And so I went out and I did a book tour, I wrote a book called a happier approach that talks about these three characters and and what to do with them, which we'll get into. And then I went on a book tour, and I realised, okay, everyone has an outer critic, but some people really have this inner critic. And around that same time I was reading the book. First we make the beast beautiful by Sarah, I will get that name. But it's First we make the beasts beautiful. And it's a beautiful book on anxiety and bipolar. And it's a memoir. And it's people love it or hate it I've found and if you have anxiety, you will love it is my guest because she's kind of jumps all over the board, like an anxious brain does. And so if you have anxiety, it's really keeps your hoppin because she's moving all over the brain. But she described anxiety, the way I experienced anxiety, which was push, push, push, I don't run and hide, I don't worry to myself, so I don't go, I worry. And then I pushed myself to go harder and faster and better. So that is when it was like, Oh, this is something that's a big deal to me. I could never relate to anxiety, the way people would describe it. But I could relate to this idea of I feel like there's something chasing me and I got to outrun it based on my performance. And so let me go. So

Kristen

your dad's death and 2017 really cracked open these three parts, if you will, the Mongar the BMS, and the biggest fan.

Nancy

Yes, exactly. Because it finally allowed me to admit, you're living a lie, Nancy, you are telling people, here's how you deal with your monger, you have self compassion. If you go onto my website, you can pull up writings that I wrote in 2015 and 2016 that are telling people have self compassion, even though I wasn't. And it wasn't till I did a presentation with a group of friends of mine, and the friends about mongers and the friend said, great, that was a great presentation. You totally described me. But I'm not doing anything about this. Because I need that voice. Or I won't get anything done.

Kristen

Yes, because I don't want to give that up. Right and solid able me to not do anything.

Nancy

Exactly. I will just be a mess on the couch. If I give her that voice up. And I was like, and I laughed with her like, but then I was like, totally girl. I'm with you. 100% I 100% agree with you. And then my dad died. And then I was like, I need to find a different way to do this because this living a lie isn't working. And so that all that kind of spurred it all up to the forefront.

Kristen

Do you think the grief wouldn't let you do that anymore? Because I think that Sorry, I lost my mom in October. I'm like the grief won't let you do. It won't let you do the performance thing because you don't have it to do you don't map to offer,

Nancy

right? Yes, exactly. Yeah, I mean, I will just say so sorry about your mom, losing a parent is just rocked your world. I mean, that's a trite thing to say but it is so freakin true. That it just takes your heart throws it on the ground and walk all over it. And then the rest of the world keeps going on and you're like, wait a minute, how is that possible? Grief is just talking about transition. Yeah, that's a trailer about your

Kristen

dad too. I mean, I see your dad working through seems like that under percentage

Nancy

you like that? Like I do. I've even had a good friend of mine who said when I'm not a super religious person, but she said, I feel like your dad kind of wrote that with you. And and that is what it felt like, like I wasn't, I'm not a big fan of even though I have become more when I first read Elizabeth Gilbert's Big Magic, and her idea of the creativity and it's floating around in a grab certain people. And I was like, whatever. This is so hokey, no freakin way. But that is this. I 100% believe that that is this because this isn't new stuff. What I finally realised is we're all kind of talking about similar things. All of us in this self help personal development therapy world. It suggest finding the person that says the thing is teaching it the way that resonates with your history and your issues and what's happening with you that you're going to learn from and grow from, it's not that person has something figured out that others don't. It's that they're talking in a language that resonates with you. And so that has really helped me also professionally be like, Oh, I don't have to have it all figured out. I just got to be honest. And talk about my experience and the tools I've figured out that are helpful that may be helpful to other people.

Kristen

The one thing I find interesting is you kind of had a before and after you like you're a therapist, you're working with your clients. We got Kristin neffs work, who when I did my Brene Brown training several did you go to that one where she was there? You were there? Okay, we saw her speak at the camp. Whatever camp? Yes. When I was getting on, it was okay, so she's there. And you're going oh, yes, self compassion. You're teaching your clients, and then something shifted when your dad died? Yes, exactly. What was the shift? Exactly? What did you realise that? What shifted it?

Nancy

I think it was my, I've done so many of these interviews, and not one person has asked me that question, which is such a great question. As I buy myself time, no, it really is a great reshoot. But I think it partly was my relationship with dad, that it just broke my heart to see him struggling. And at the end of his life, he was really honest and authentic about how much he was struggling with that. I think it was just seeing that in myself and was like, I'm tired of this. I'm tired of letting this thing my monger beat me up. And what's funny is when you say that's a before and after. And I see it knowing my story. Because I talk about what I teach things, I teach them in spirals. And I think that was the first spiral, or one of the first spirals in unearthing my own family trauma, and unearthing my own anxiety and unearthing my own self. So that to me now doesn't seem like that big of an aha, because I've had so many other spirals down into this process. So it's hard to think back on it. But it really was the first time I think that I thought I don't have to live this way. This voice doesn't have to run the show. I just got to figure out how to do that self loyalty thing, which I'm still

Kristen

trying to figure out the lifetime journey, I really am convinced like, there's not a cloudally finish line because then another shame piece will pop up or 100% another invitation for you to explore a different part that you thought was healed, but really it needs more nurturing, it needs more love, it needs more processing. When you say spiral, can you share what that means to you, like you said, I've kind of understood this as a spiralling

Nancy

so that was the first so if I go like top of the spiral was really figuring out this, my dad dying, me figuring out this monger BFF thing going on the book tour. And then owning that I had anxiety was kind of the next level and being able to even though I'd been in therapy for anxiety, I never really saw it in me. But then I saw it in me the high functioning anxiety piece. And so then I started really talking about high functioning anxiety and went on this thing about self loyalty. And a year ago wrote a whole course on how to find self loyalty, which does the spirals that I speak of, but it really wasn't until this past year than that so I was kind of coasting along in this self loyalty thing during the self loyalty school and I was going to really be helping people with that and then my mom got sick, I turned 50 And I hurt my back all kind of boom, boom, boom, and that is the spiral that I'm in right now. Let me back up a little bit before that spiral I found I realised and this is like have not shared this on a public forum before that I was raised by a narcissist and so my mom was a narcissist and she had raised me my entire life enabled by my dad and like, bought back kool aid until I was in my mid 40s. And finally saw that wait, the red glasses that you had on viewing your family, it was more of a shitshow than this beautiful thing you grew up with. So that was another transition. If you're like, Oh, we got all this trauma. And this is where the anxiety is coming from. This is why you're such a perfectionist. And this is why you're pushing for worthiness so much because you were told you were broken. And so then you're unpack, I'm unpacking all of that. And I also then just hit the wall of like, I can't function anymore. So in January, I just kind of collapsed on the couch for months from months. It wasn't until a couple I would say like a month ago that I finally came up for air and was like, Okay, now it's just physical. I'm through the mental emotional stuff. But that's when I really was like, Wow, all this stuff that you've been learning Nancy was blocked, because I couldn't look at my own upbringing and see what was really happening. And so that is the before and after, not the writing of the book, and not the my dad dying. But this aha, around my family of origin was the AHA and this aha of like this, why went to therapy, Nancy to try to figure this out. And you've been doing all these things in your life, that point with big red arrows. You had massive trauma in your childhood. And I'm like, no, no, wait, why Chuck, it was great. It was great, magical event. So anyway, that was just a load of you wanted authenticity that he

Kristen

loved the authenticity. And thank you for being so authentic and vulnerable and sharing real raw, because that is what resonates. Because my nervous system goes home. There's like my nervous system. Lets go when I feel authenticity, it just feels Yes, I just like Arthas feels so refreshing because we can just be real, and it can be safe. And it can feel acceptable. Because growing up with narcissistic mother, there are unacceptable parts. There are judgments, there are so much that goes into it.

Nancy

Yes. And here now my mom has dementia. And I am one of her primary caregivers. I mean, she lives by herself, but I'm still seeing her multiple times a week. So it's just there's the thing you've been not wanting to look at staring you in the face. And which has been helpful to be able to see all the ways that I was in denial that she would say something that would ding me that I just believed that I just was like, Yeah, right. Okay. And now I can look at it be like, that's not true. But I would just swallow it without even thinking and all those became longer messages that I swallow.

Kristen

Yes. And how much of that is the self doubt? Like, will I read? Yes. How am I 100%? Right? Is that self doubt you

Nancy

guys agreed example of how this works. So this morning, I told just monger Monday, my husband and I have not been working because I hurt my back. And so I've kind of been on this. I've been very limited working. Because it's hard for me to set up. I don't see here I am. I'm going into all the excuses to justify to you why it's okay that I'm not working. Because this morning, my husband, who is an amazing husband, he loves me to death said something so innocuous. And it was actually in his mind supportive, because he said, Oh, well, it's not like your hands are broken. It's just your back. And so you can write as much as you wanted to. It's just that your back is broken. And my little monger took that and twisted it around as if my husband is the most evil mean malicious man that was like, had you lazy fat s hear this whole time you've been whining about your back, but your hands are just fine. They're not broken. Why aren't you writing and I took that and built it up and made it much bigger and more brutal and more mean for hours. And I knew what I was doing. I mean part of me ups not true. I didn't know what I was doing. But finally when I recognised it, I said to him, wow, this is what I'm doing. And he's like, Oh my god, I would never say that to you. Like for a long time. I think he thought how could you possibly think I would say that stuff about you? But it didn't have anything to do with him. Does it have anything to do with him this morning? I said that was a mom message that you said and I took and spun it and heard it through her lens. And there you have

Kristen

it. Bam. Does that feel so powerful though and you can figure that out? Is hard and it's painful. And yet there's an empowerment piece that goes oh, this is why I spun it that way this is why I suck made me feel this way even Yes,

Nancy

totally. But that's the part that I spent a lot of time in that part of like finally this year my husband said you got to stop just identifying the Monger you need to start bringing in the biggest fan my husband has obviously done this work with me so as all the lingo

Kristen

they all do don't like Welcome Welcome to marry a therapist is gonna be

Nancy

but he's right and that's where I did a lot of times for way too many years. I just analyse what was happening. And then I would leave it there, instead of being like, Okay, now you got to do the thing that changes that belief and rewires it in a different way. That's the part I don't like doing. That's the part I just want to sit in analysis. But I've discovered that analysis isn't the whole gig

Kristen

as a defence. So you can sit in analysis for a long time. Yes, yet, it's almost like a protective part. Because then I actually have to figure out how do I caretake that part that feels so lazy and not worthy? Yeah, that now how do I take it to the next step of giving myself what I actually need, which is your part, that's the biggest fan part.

Nancy

So then that part, the acronym I have for bringing in the biggest fan is called ask and ask stands for acknowledge what you're feeling slow down and get into your body and kindly pull back to see the big picture. This is why I'm saying none of that is brain surgery. You all know, you're supposed to acknowledge what you're feeling, you're supposed to slow down and get into your body and you're supposed to pull back and see a big picture, like anything you follow, whether it's meditation, or yoga, or traditional therapy is talking about this stuff. But for me, I kept getting, I was really bummed when I realised that I had to acknowledge my feelings, because I was really good at intellectualising everything because I'm really good at analysing, which is why I got into therapy mean to be a therapist, because I just wanted to analyse it. So I could stop feeling this way, and not have to go through the feelings part. But the feelings part that's been the game changer, 100%, acknowledging my feelings, because I had learned again, I see this now, after I had the aha about my family of origin, that feelings weren't okay, unless you were happy. And I think so many of us got that message, especially Gen Xers have be happy, because there was not time for our feelings. There was stuff happening all the time. And so that idea of oh, I can acknowledge what I'm feeling and I don't have to do anything about it. I can just be sad. So it yesterday was Father's Day, which was a tough day, because my dad and I woke up in the morning and I immediately start analysing analysing what's going on, why am I feeling this way? How can I feel better. And finally, I thought, dude, it's Father's Day, pass all day, we're not analysing anything. Today, we just get to feel whatever. And then I thought to myself, That's every day where you just get to feel whatever without having to analyse it and beat it to death. So then it is slowing down and getting into your body. I always say a full body movement, because for me, when I hear of getting to your body, I go, Okay, I'm in my body, which that isn't in your body. So I have to force myself to stand up and reach and bend and move and do a little jig to really be like, oh, yeah, you're not just a head here, you got a body. And that's really important. And so with clients, one thing I've noticed and with myself, is that we're really good at saying, I'm feeling really sad. Today is such a tough day. I'm just so sad and angry, I'm so mad at my husband. But see, notice my voice is the same. There's no emotion there. I'm just reporting what I think the emotion should be. I'm not saying I'm not in it. And so when I'll say to my clients, go back because I do audio recordings with my clients. And so I'll say go back and listen to the recording, and then record it again, but go into the emotion. And they'll be like, oh, yeah, I was just dancing around it. And then I could take a deep breath, I can get into my body and I can be like, I am sad. I had a really bad argument with my spouse today. And just hey, when that happens, the voice changes like what you said about that's authenticity, there in the emotion. So it's exactly what you were saying, then I can be like, Okay, now we're making a connection. Now we got this, because my nervous system relax, because when it wasn't when they were like, I'm so sad, everything's so sad. And I'm like, okay, that's not matching. So you're not in it.

Kristen

It's so interesting, because I am so passionate about emotions in the cloud health and processing them and allowing them out which we didn't get as children, many of us, right. And I remember as a child, my parents got divorced, and my mom loved Barbra Streisand. So that was her love was Barbra Streisand and I would put on my record player and I'd put on Barbra Streisand. You don't bring me flowers, and I'm in fourth grade. I don't even but it would allow me to feel it would i by myself, right? Okay, I could then feel safe enough to connect to the emotion is So giving people that insight on me. You might need a little music you might need a sound to help you because some people like I just don't feel anything. Or they're like it I don't think their eyes let the feeling right. Yeah. And I just did that the other day. I was like, I am feeling blocked. The word just kept feeling blocked, but I wasn't able to access the emotion. So I just put on some music. I actually got the Barbra Streisand hadn't done that in years, but it on and allowed the feelings in there they were if someone feels like I just can't access it, or I still am in my head, I can name it, but I can't feel it in my body. Just starting with maybe some music or whatever works for you being out in nature. Maybe it's your pets. He hid your pets face. Yeah. Maybe you're petting you know, feeling that whatever that is for you, to give you full permission, because a lot of us were conditioned out of that.

Nancy

Absolutely. Yeah, the full permission. I love that. I mean, all of what you said is Yeah, because it is true. It's accessing them is hard when you've been told it's not okay.

Kristen

You feel bad. Like I feel this way, because my life is okay. Right now, it's not that bad. You hear people say why don't have it as bad as so and so? Yeah, it's, I don't want to be a bad person. Because I feel sad today when everything should be happy.

Nancy

Yes, exactly. I'll say that, like my husband's around, oh, I should be happy. He's tired of having a crabby wife. He's tired. And I'm like, I know he's not. He's like, I'd rather have Ubu. But that's another like, it's okay to feel by myself this way. But I can't share it with anybody else. I can't bring it out into the world. And that's a whole nother level mean, that's another spiral. I think just being able to give myself permission to feel it in my own privacy has been huge.

Kristen

Yes. I'm just noticing these three, the longer the BFF and the biggest fan? And how are you accessing more of your biggest fan? How when you're in the Monger? Are you accessing your biggest fan more,

Nancy

usually, I will access her more by recognising I'm with them longer. So that's the hardest part. Because it's so freakin comfortable. I always say for comfortable people are like comfortable. But if you were raised with self doubt, as a primary motivation of how you did anything, it is comfortable. It's familiar, it's comfortable. You don't want it to be but it is. And so initially when it happens, I describe it like this, you find a sweater at the back of your closet, and you really can't even see the sweater on forever. And you put it on and you're like, Yeah, and that's initially what the manga feels like comfortable familiar. And then she starts to get itchy. And she starts to feel like you get that I'm a loser and I can't get out of it. It's like a straight jacket. So the lovely sweater that you found that the back of the closet is like this striped jacket now. And so the earlier you can catch her, the better because she's not so ingrained there. But a lot of times, I will go direct out I should say the book says practice, ask knowledge what you're feeling slow down and get into your body kindly pull back to see the big picture. But sometimes, if she's really in there, I'll just be like, Wait, you're in manga world. This is manga attack right now. Let's access 50 year old Nancy, where is she? And when I can pull out and do that age thing. For me, that's helpful, because then I recognise Oh, you're acting as a 14 year old Nancy, your eight year old Nancy and I can remember what it feels like to be 50 year old Nancy. And to be like, you're not in that world anymore. You are an adult, and you have a house with your husband and you guys have created a safe place. And this is different. Then once I get there, I can start going into what's really going on here. And then it's oh my gosh, this morning, oh my gosh, I'm afraid What if when I start to go back to work, it's not there. What if I should have been doing more I have these fears. And then I can address the fears. Because it's not about you're a loser who isn't working. It's about Wait a minute, you're an actual person. Now, I also want to say this, one of the ways I got to recognising the 50 year old Nancy is noticing. So like last week, I was supposed to contact a couple people and I was procrastinating on it. And at the end of the day I was beating myself up, you're such a loser who should have contacted these people blah, blah, blah. And I just didn't feel like contacting them. He was just like, you're not in the mood. And I said that to myself, but it didn't help. But then the next day, I got up in the morning and I was in the mood and I just contacted everyone bam, bam, boom, no big deal, checked all the boxes, everything was fine. And that's when I said to myself see today you were in biggest fan mode. Yesterday you were in Mongar mode, see how that feels in your body. And I started paying attention to Oh, when I am in biggest fan mode. I don't have self doubt I'm not analysing every little thing of what might they say what might I say? I just am like I'm a 50 year old woman making a phone call for a doctor's appointment. This isn't going to be a big deal. But if my anxiety is in charge and my monger is in charge, I try to pay attention to how I feel in my body differently and then I can pull myself out of it.

Kristen

Okay, this is sparking a great conversation because I love inner child work and noticing how do you feel in those things? Do you think that anxiety is a younger part? Yes, I do have an Epson we've learned how to perform For him to manage the anxiety, that's what you're calling high functioning anxiety.

Nancy

Right? So all the things we do perfectionism people pleasing, go, go go. Those are all ways defences unhealthy coping skills we have developed around our anxiety

Kristen

is if we weren't allowed to feel as kids, we develop anxiety, which is really kind of fear of not belonging, not getting the love, we want not feeling worthy, not feeling acceptable. So I will earn that. So I belong and you love me and you think I'm enough, I still have a connection with you. And so that anxiety just kind of follows along if we're not doing the feelings work.

Nancy

100% Yeah, because I have to be able to say to my little 16 year old, Sweetie, you're not there. We're not there anymore. We're safe. I have you, your 50 year old self has you were out of that place. Now, what's really going on here, and I can get into it then.

Kristen

So this is an interesting piece for people listening is the body work? I want to go back to that piece because I think it's really important when I feel anxious. This is an important question. Where do you notice it in your body and I have this like pit in my stomach hurts. Some people might have their throat feels tight, or their chest feels tight, or they might have back pain wherever it is. It's a young I can remember feeling that as a child. And I can go over very familiar beans in that moment. I wasn't able to process what I was feeling what I was experienced what I was afraid of, right? Yes. Was it going to be attended to it wasn't gonna be seen notice. So I just push through, put on a mask however I did it multitude throughout my childhood, but I invite people to see is there a familiar body sensation? When you notice it in your body, you feel anxious, you've identified it and kind of doing this kind of float back. I recommend doing it with a therapist if you to have that support. It's really powerful. That's why I love EMDR eye movement, desensitisation reprocessing can really help in somatic experiencing, and all these different therapy modalities to help it move it up and out of the body. I'm also curious what your thoughts are on suppressed anger that living in the body?

Nancy

That's a lot. I mean, I think a lot of my clients have suppressed anger that comes out as anxiety like that the place and one of almost all my clients share. And I'm not saying that everyone who has high functioning anxiety has this but a tendency to cry when they're angry. That gets the dislike pisses them off that they do that. But again, it's not anger, is it? Okay, the crying is in their house of origin. And so that was what they learned. But then it was yelled at to was like this mixed message of girls can cry, but girls can't be angry. And so I definitely think suppressed anger. I know I deal with that big time.

Kristen

Yeah, because a lot of times or we weren't allowed to do that there was going to be a major price to pay major price gap. The other thing that I wondering what your thoughts are on is when somebody feels anxious that it can come across as anger, that they still anxious, but it comes across as anger or irritability? Do you find that

Nancy

I find that to be true? Yes. And I will say one of the things I have to know if you are under a monger attack, as I call it. It's a 10 reaction to a two situation where you come home and you told the kids to do the dishes and they didn't. But really you're feeling anxious about a presentation at work. But the dishes suddenly become the be all end all of how much they love to you and how worthy they think you are. And you just scream about the dishes when that wasn't the problem. The problem is the thing at work that you're feeling anxious about. So 100% I think a lot of marital conflicts are is anxiety. Not a lot but if I am completely agree emotion, it doesn't have to be anxiety, it's emotions that are mis placed. And I wanted to go back to things I wanted to one thing I wanted to say was the when it comes to the breathing or comes to the body, the thing that used to drive me crazy, and this is why I say full body movement. I cannot stand the Take a deep breath. Take five deep breaths, take a deep breath. I mean, like I can still visualise me coming down the stairs, my husband being like, wow, you seem really anxious, take a deep breath. And I just want to punch him in the face because of the last thing someone with high functioning anxiety who's jumping from thing to thing, I do not want to pause. I do not want to get into my breath into my body because this feels too good. So the idea that taking a deep breath is going to have any influence on how I'm feeling is it's not and that's why I say get into your body. When I started this work had absolutely no relationship with my body. None Zippo when you say to me, where do you feel anxiety is a child? No clue. None. And so this has been a process of really having to get to know and have a lot of curiosity and it does not come from For me from breath, it has to come from me stretching and moving and being like, where do I feel this? And so I just think, again, it's that idea of find the people who are talking about things that resonate with you, that get you on the right path, and then you'll do that stuff. And then you'll be like, okay, murdered for something else. And you try that too. And I think I revisit now, the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle, and I'm like, oh, that's what he was talking about. Because I couldn't see it in my 20s when I first started reading it. And so I think sometimes we're not ready for the lesson yet. And then we can get ready.

Kristen

Yes, I like how you said for you. The breath? Isn't that can be more activate. I mean, if someone's willing to take a deep breath when you're in the middle of it, and that you need to get in your body by moving stretching. Yeah, that will calm your nervous system down.

Nancy

Yes. Because that's what you got to think. Just so you said, it's all about how can I calm my nervous system down, because there's two things that are happening. One, you're in an anxious state. So it's an acute, I gotta get my nervous system calm down in this moment. And that's why you'll see things about taking a deep breath or holding something cold, or changing your state, because it's all things of how can I get out of this acute state of anxiety. But you also then need to be treating the chronic anxiety. And that's this idea of acknowledging what I'm feeling doing the inner child stuff, creating the source of where this anxiety came from. And so CBT therapy is great for acute anxiety, how do I train my thoughts when I'm in an anxious state, but I also got to be doing some EMDR stuff, some deeper stuff, to really be getting at the root of my anxiety, because that's how I'm going to make some inroads into this stuff, it's still going to be there. I always say we're about quieting anxiety, it's not about curing it, because I don't think we can totally cure it, but we can get on top of it and be ahead of it. So it doesn't run the show.

Kristen

That's so important. If someone says, I don't really have anxiety, I'm not in a corner like shaking or people thinking anxiety looks a certain way, like what are the tells an enormous out of time, but what are the tells for someone with high functioning anxiety?

Nancy

Well, I will say this, most of the time, the people that come to me, most of my clients come to me either their spouse has contacted me first, to kind of be like, hey, they gave me the heads up, they let give me permission that I could reach out to you. Because it's hard with high functioning anxiety, because it feels so good. Some of the symptoms that really bring people in is that anger piece, you can't relax, you can't ever Calm down, you just are going going going. It is the ways you were using to numb yourself, maybe your drinking is increased or your sugar intake is increased. All those are ways that we deal with anxiety. It isn't, I said there's high functioning, meaning I hit anxiety and I push harder. I am a person that is a type A personality, I have everything figured out, I have to know the plan. They don't want to be site strike or out of control, or have someone tell me what to do. Like all those things are common symptoms of people with high functioning anxiety, then there is low functioning anxiety, which isn't the term is seen as a negative because low functioning isn't as valued as high functioning by society. But they're both really unhealthy ways of coping in the world. Low Functioning, I'm going to go hide in the corner and be really scared. I'm going to obsess about things with my family. And I'm going to call them all the time and check on them. high functioning anxiety, I may not be I'm going to function harder and faster and higher in how I do stuff. I'm not going to hide from anxiety, I'm going to push through it. Those are that answered that question.

Kristen

Yeah, that did. And then what would you say are the three biggest takeaways and working through intending to high functioning anxiety,

Nancy

all about feelings, it's so much about feelings. And that just I hate that that's the my 16 year old is really mad that that's the but it is all about feelings. I'm just going to give some things on feelings because it is the idea of what a big one for me on feelings was I don't have to act on the feeling. I can just be sad. I don't have to confront someone or talk to someone or that may be something I need to do, but I don't have to. And so for me, like I could be angry. And I don't have to do anything with it. Just acknowledging that you're angry about this was revolutionary for me because I could never even acknowledge it. So that's why the first step of ask is acknowledge your feelings. And so I think that is a big one for people to recognise. And then the the third thing I think with high functioning anxiety that was a big takeaway for me and this again goes back to feeling is the idea there's so much out there about your thoughts control everything, and I just struggle with that so much. I do not believe that your thoughts control everything. If your feelings are running the show most of the time, and you are not even thinking about them. So I know that there are times where my sadness is running the show, and I am doing all these things acting out of sadness. I'm not thinking about sadness, I'm not thinking about the thing that's making me sad. I'm not obsessing about it. But it's running the show. And that proves to me that feelings run the show. And so this idea of your thoughts, control, everything is just making everything worse.

Kristen

I want to do like a Mic drop. I want to go Paul Jackson said, this is the takeaway. I mean, these two points are so significant. How can people find your book, the happier approach, if they want to get it and they want to deconstruct these three parts and work with them?

Nancy

They can get it on Amazon or Barnes and Noble through my website, Nancy Jane smith.com. It's on Audible, and Kindle. And you can get all the versions. And I read by me in my little guest bedroom.

Kristen

Oh, glad I like it when the author reads the book.

Nancy

Yes, I'll meet you. So yeah, that's how you can find it. And on my website has my podcast. There's just a lot of free information on on my website.

Kristen

And it's Nancy Jane smith.com. You got it. Yes. That's where you go. Is there else you wanted to add to Oh, I

Nancy

think we covered I feel like I just talked to talk to talk, but it's so much fun.

Kristen

I love it. You're awesome. And I think this is going to be so helpful to many people. So share this. And let's use this term, Roy Moore, did you coined the term high functional ID? No, I did not know, I was gonna say kudos to you, because no one's talking about that very much. And that

Nancy

book is the thing that I Sorry, I got all excited that I interrupted you. No, no, not at all. The last thing I want to say is that people sometimes will think because it was around that high functioning anxiety means that I don't really have anxiety because I function so well with it like it's a higher anxiety. That is not it is the same. All we've done is separate it out the symptoms of anxiety and how they represent versus low functioning versus high functioning. But it's all anxiety, it doesn't mean you're better because you have high functioning anxiety versus someone that has low functioning anxiety. And I know there are articles out there that make it appear that way. And that is in my view. Very incorrect. Yes,

Kristen

I think that's a good point. Thank you so much, Nancy, for your heart sharing this work with our audience. I am so grateful for you and everybody go get the book. Thank you to Nancy. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to the close the chapter podcast. My hope is that you took home some actionable steps, along with motivation, inspiration and hope for making sustainable change in your life. If you enjoy this episode, click the subscribe button to be sure to get the updated episodes every week and share with a friend or family member. For more information about how to get connected visit kristendboice.com Thanks and have a great day.