Kristen

Welcome to the close the chapter podcast. I am Kristen Boice a licenced Marriage and Family Therapist with a private practice pathways to healing counselling. Through conversations, education, strategies and shared stories. We will be closing the chapter on all the thoughts, feelings, people and circumstances that don't serve you anymore. And open the door to possibilities and the real you. You won't want to miss an episode, so be sure to subscribe.

Kristen

Welcome to this week's close the chapter podcast I am beyond thrilled that you are joining me for this very important conversation. And the reason I think this is so important is because when you block through a loss, whether it's a loss of a partner, a family member, maybe you've gotten a divorce, maybe you've lost a job, and you feel completely alone, and you have no idea where to turn, whether it's finances, emotional support, whatever that looks like. That's why we're having these kinds of conversations because at the end of the day, we all want to feel like we have support connection to be seen, heard and understood. So let me introduce you to today's guest. I'm so excited. She's joining me, Donna Kendrick, I am so glad you're here. Let me read her bio because it's very impressive in 2013. Donna's husband passed away unexpectedly, and she found herself suddenly navigating widowhood. After an initial period of getting things settled with her kids and their new life. She made the decision to relaunch her career and get into the role that she had found so impactful. During the time of transition for her family financial planning. She established and owns Stephen financial, which specialised in financial planning for families and transitions. She is the author of a Guide to widowhood, navigating the first three years and host of the podcast widow wisdom and wealth with a capital R after it. Donna also guides support groups as a grief recovery methods specialist. Welcome, Donna to the podcast.

Donna

Oh, Kristen, thank you for inviting me and for giving me the opportunity to share some wisdom. Thank you so much. Glad you're here. I saw that your book like a best seller on Amazon. It did. It was a wonderful journey. I was I'm a girl from Philadelphia. So not often in my speech less of but what I saw the results come in my husband gave them to me I have remarried in the past year. And he was like baby did it. It did it. I was like, No, it was awesome. And I'm glad that book is out there as a resource so that when someone widows and widowers are in those first few moments of grief, or they might have a blessing of knowing that their partner might pass for this can be in their hands to help guide them with next steps because the world certainly does swirl around you. And this might just be a little roadmap in their pocket that they need. Oh, congratulations. It is definitely needed. I've walked many people through losing a spouse. And it is so painful. Not only are you walking through grief, but now you're having to sort out all the financial information and all the bills and so many pieces and parts to it. So tell me about your journey in writing the book. Yeah, I mean, so, Sefton financial, that's that's my firm. Sefton is my maiden name. And I hung my own shingle. During the the pandemic, I just knew I had to put some love back into financial planning. And I was like, well, here we go. And it worked. Like it worked well. And I just found that at the end of 2020, when everything started to release, actually, early 2021, I was undoing some of the decisions that people made while they were social distancing about their finances. And I was really helping a lot of these widows navigate social security, navigate pension, navigate paperwork that was almost about to expire, be overdue. And I really thought to myself, like, oh, how do I get to these people earlier, and just happened to be inspired through a webinar that I was on, on Zoom about how to write a book, How to carry your mission, how to make it service based, and I went for it. So I went on a programme of write your book and 12 weeks, I would wake up at like, 4am every day and write from four to seven. We are blended families, we have six kids from right now they're 12 to 21. And so it was just like it was hard to get some silent dogs to that and you're sunk, right? Like, everyone's asleep at four except the dogs are like who Ah, she's up. Here we go. Because I wrote the book. And then I went through about six to nine months of like editing it going through content editors because I'm a statistician, like I am not a writer, and it came out pretty good though. Oh, happy with it. And we edited it. And then we launched that with the companion workbook all at the same time with that podcast to be able to reach more to get that audience to know there's a resource out here and there are financial planners like me all over the place that specialise or have so much empathy for the stages of fun

Donna

as you're planning because the finances their numbers, right, but the emotions behind them are completely different. And you've got to pace yourself with that stuff you do. So that's really why the book got out there. And I was thrilled, I've been able to speak to lots of different groups. And that also opened the door to put some social media out there to share the message to be like, I've been there to like, give yourself some grace. And I'm just so thrilled of the energy of the book and what it's allowed me to do as a person, not as a financial planner, but as a person as a mom as a fellow widow.

Kristen

Yeah, getting up at 4am. That's dedication.

Donna

goof up less. Yeah, every now and then I would hide from everyone, like I said, like we have a place in the Poconos, upstate PA and I would literally go stand on a deck, I don't care if it was my deck, and I would just right, tap away my computer just to get the get quiet the concentration, but it was worth it. I'm proud of it.

Kristen

That's amazing. What are the things that I think is I would say fairly universal with clients I've worked with is the shame around finances, like not understanding it feeling stupid, feeling like it's so overwhelming, whether you're going through grief or loss or just in life in general, it can prey up a lot of shame and fear. finances have a lot tied to it emotionally. How do you feel people through that shame and fear?

Donna

A lot of it is one allowing them a safe place to talk about it, right? We make our financial decisions, based many of times on the financial lessons we learned when we were younger? How did mom and dad do it? Right? How did we see it? Or I came from a blue collar family. My dad was a Philadelphia firefighter. My mom was a stay at home mom. So when we saw someone in like a suburban house with a yard and two cars were like, Oh, those rich people, right. So there was a lot of shame for me if you weren't a hard working blue collar city person. And I had to get that out of my own way, as my first husband, I actually our first house, we were so blessed was a single over in New Jersey, we were those people. And we had to get out of our own way. So a lot of is giving someone the space to talk about how do they make their money decisions, and also the freedom to say my spouse took care of it. And I took care of this. And there is no shame in that we all pick our roles, we all have our strengths. Now I work with a lot of young families to make sure that there is that transparency, that even if it's the budgeting is someone's wheelhouse and the investment is the other person's, let's just make sure that we touch base once a quarter, once a year. And know where everything is know where the passwords are, know where the will is hidden know where that fire safe boxes know who the executor is, know who the beneficiary is. But I hope they sit together and have that transparency. And for many of us who have lost a spouse, it's almost like we're telling tales about the person that got lost. Yeah, well, my husband took care of that. And now I'm seeing that maybe he didn't do all the best decisions. Those are those things, it's so hard to have that conversation. So it's like speaking badly about the dead sometimes. Or sometimes it's that I really, as an adult, it wasn't my role in the marriage, and I'm lost. It's a humbling experience, while you're already dealing most of the time with guilt because of a loss, or just straight out grief, it brings up so much. So understanding how you make your money decisions, understanding where you want to be moving forward, understanding your own strength. And then there are so many resources out there, if that's not your strength, your creative like numbers, how do we support you? How do we get you what you need to at least have control of the numbers, even if you don't love them?

Kristen

Sometimes it's like talking to foreign language. It really is this Roth IRA, your 401 K your pension. I mean, it can be extremely overwhelming, even just looking at a budget

Donna

100%. So in the book, A Guide to widow, there's a glossary of terms. And it's so funny had some of my beta readers are like, Oh, it should have been named like don't wait for widowhood. Get your financial house in order. But it's true. I'm like, ooh, second book, because it's the basics. What is your budget? What's the envelope system, like we don't all have to do it on a credit card, or we don't always have to do it balancing the chequebook, you can put cash in envelopes and spend out of those and my mom did it. That's how I started my budget. Now there's computer apps or apps on your phone that feel like the envelope system, we can find those resources put on top of it too late. You're saying what's a Roth conversion? What's a traditional IRA, what's the set, the either old things are in that glossary at the back of the book, pick it up and read it because sometimes to financial advisors, if they haven't spent the time to get to know you, they might think you have a different financial vocabulary. And so they use acronyms that go right over top of you. Ask them to slow down. Google it yourself if you need to. Not everything on the internet is true. But Google's own basic definitions if you can, and that will help you that'll help you feel a little bit more grounded. And that's one of those points that books. I want the widows and widowers to sit down with a financial professional and at least have some of the lingo so they don't feel lost in the conversation and have permission to ask that advisor to slow down.

Kristen

Yes, so you feel more equipped. One of the things you said that I think is really important that I want to hone in on is I work with couples. I do premarital. And, obviously different stages of life, blended families. And one of the things that I recommend that you just said is do not shy away from talking about finances, and your family history, and how you're going to do it, either differently moving forward, or how are you doing it now? And what do you want to change, and not shying away from these conversations? Because they're like, oh, they brought up the budget. And it was like a trigger word for somebody, because they felt controlled, potentially, like you're trying to control me with the finances. And maybe that was a dynamic. And it's an and and boasts we have to be plugged in to how everything's managed. I don't think we talk about that. Because it's not like maybe how we grew up

Donna

exactly like it might be a little voodoo topic. And on top of it, if we do talk about it, if our children hear us as as couples as partners say, okay, Sunday morning, remember, we're going to log into our client portal, and we're going to go through everything. So let's sit down, and they know that it's okay to talk to your partner about money about finances, just that just the kids hearing us say, we're going to sit and talk about it sets the stage for what they're going to approach in their adult relationships moving forward, and we don't even realise it. So the activity that moving forward activity, and I do I call it transparency, because when you understand how your partner makes decisions with money, you can be a better partner is not saying you have to agree. I'm not saying you have to do it the same way. But you can be a stronger couple, having awareness and understanding. For many of my clients, we do a survey, it's called financial virtues. And it comes up if you heard the bull and the bear market, it comes up with what colour bull you are, and I love this survey comes back, they secretly get their own report, they can read about from these crazy questions that took five minutes. Really, what is that basis? How do we make decisions? And how do we like to receive information? Do we like a diagram? Do we like intricate details? Do we want the overall big picture, and then it tells you when talking to a spouse, because many of times both my partners take it at the same time, this is how they want to be heard. And then you can see an overlap of both of their results, see where they have things in common, emphasise that as a financial adviser, or teach the clients to talk in that manner, because there'll be heard by one another, and then identify where maybe that weakness of communication could be strengthened when I would have to slow down my speech because I go so fast, or where I might have to draw a diagram, or where I might have to be transparent and give up a little control. That's a big one for me. I've got all the passwords, I've got everything, don't you touch my buckets. Each of my accounts had a bucket. And that's the kitchen. And that's spending and that's the house improvement. Nobody else would know that. But I do. Well, I better label them in the portal. So that they do know, because one thing was very important to me after I lost my husband was if something happened to me, who's going to steer the ship. And that was one of the reasons I rushed to have a financial planner helped me. And that's one of the reasons I transferred and flipped my career on its head to make sure that that is labelled that what I wanted for if I would pass the executor of my will, the guardians of my kid to know where things are. I wanted to make sure that clients had that conversation top of mind.

Kristen

So you lost your husband and 2013 You were walking through the grief navigating helping your kids through it. There's a lot of pieces and parts and then you just recently got remarried. Congratulations. Now you're having to combine finances again. I'm guessing blended

Donna

family blended finances. You want to hear about that? Yes.

Kristen

I'm like there's a journey here. So walk me through that.

Donna

So let's just jump into the blended family part because I think it's so important. And no, I can't write a book about blended families navigating the first three years because I'm just in it now. And because I was so self reliant. I became so staunch on depending on me and the 10 year period, I was by myself. I was not willing to share a lot of the responsibility. I was not willing to share a lot of the financial needs of my family. And I was stubbornly embedded in doing it myself and not letting someone else helped me. Wow, you have to have a very patient soul on the other side, to help you break down those walls to help you feel safe again, to help you share and to recognise that some things I can share some things I can not own all on my own because yeah, that comes a lot of overwhelm a lot of overwhelm you just keep it on your own shoulders. And I had someone begging me to let them help. It was a lot, but here's how we did it. prenuptial agreement made me feel better to say out loud. This was the funds that my husband and I say for our kids so they go to my kid And I'm gonna do everything in my power to produce an income on my own to protect that asset for my kids. So it's titled that way. And this is the house. This is the house that I built after Greg left, and I was so proud of that house. Well, we've moved, life changed six kids, my house didn't fit everyone anymore. But the equity I had in the house is my equity. At the same time, everything from when we combined our families on is ours. So when we save, when we make decisions, there's a joint checking account, who's contributing what we really set the guidelines ahead of time, important point, my new husband didn't really care. He's like, it just rolls. He has a whole different financial outlook than me, he's like, I will always be able to earn some money. Life takes care of us live it roll, and I'm a worrier. So it was like, Oh, buddy, I don't work for me. But it did work for me. Because together, we're whole, he gets me to loosen the reins a little bit, to live a little bit to not just be saving for that long life of 96. Polish family lives a very long time. And his family unfortunately, does not. So he's like, Well, I'm gonna live it a little bit more. I'm like, I gotta give it up a little bit. It's a very happy balance between the two of us. But he had to let me hold on to some of that control. And I needed to be heard about why I wanted to protect these funds for my kids, why I wasn't trying to be selfish or not believe that our marriage would work. Why it was important that I redid my estate documents, so that if I died, the kids stayed with him. That was really important to me. And I wasn't going to just let it roll. I was going to take control of it. Because I had that life experience of knowing, like how it can just feel like the wind got knocked out of yourself. So we're making the decisions ahead of time. Was that helpful?

Kristen

I was so helpful. And I'm so glad you said about the prenup because people can have negative connotations with it. And I just think it can be so helpful, especially in certain situations we were hearing exactly, you knew we're clear, and it was an alignment. It's when you don't speak your truth. And you're like, oh, I don't want them to think XYZ. And then we go away from our truth that we regret it.

Donna

Yeah. And I have to say to you, some of that was actually talked about clarity and transparency between couples. I have adult children. My oldest is 21, my natural born youngest just turned 18. He's about to graduate, they can hear these conversations. And if I didn't let them know that we are being adults, there's a prenup. Once we moved into this new house, there's no postnup Yes, the house goes to the children. But Jim, if I die gets to stay there until he dies. There's life insurance to help cover that. But for my kids to actually hear that. No, no, I understand your dad and I built this. This is funds from your dad, I respect it. So it is yours in the end, but you can't kick him out. His family too. This is where we are all living with a family that clear the air. If you don't clear the air, sometimes, if you're not specific people will make up their own story to fill in the blanks. So be very specific, be very transparent. That's my advice as a mom, as a new blended family, with anyone who's age appropriate to handle the information. Also be prepared people talk, the more transparent you are, the more forthcoming you are, the more people may talk, be ready for have your responses down, or have a thick skin and be like, alright, just roll.

Kristen

Yes, I like how you're sharing communication and be specific. I mean, you're being specific. Some people like I will communicate it. I'm like, Well, what did you communicate? Well, that it's all taken care of? Well, that's not really what that we need to be clear, direct and very specific of what have you taken care of what does this look like?

Donna

Here's the name of my financial advisor, here's the name of my state attorney. This is the executor. This is where the will is hidden. This is the key to the safe deposit box. This is the bank where the safe deposit boxes we have a called a personal Document Locator and your listeners can jump on my website, get it for free. But I always say it's like six pages of just direction of just a roadmap and fill it out and put it with your state documents on January 1 of every year. So people just know where to go get one of those password aggregators if you feel comfortable with technology. So there's one login and that will open up the windows of where all of your logins are, because that's where most of our documents are now.

Kristen

That's really helpful for a friend. I'm her executor. I videotaped Where does she have everything? Where is it stored? So I had it all on video. So if my memory slips, which can have that I have it, and so that was really a good idea. I was like, Oh, I thought about videotaping. Well, that's a

Donna

wonderful idea.

Kristen

Can I use that? Absolutely. It was so helpful. I wonder for you when you lost your husband, Craig, and then you're talking to your kids about obviously you're walking them through the grief and the loss and the pain of that. How did you talk to your kids about finances all along? This journey and then into a new relationship. Yeah, I think

Donna

in the very beginning, so when I lost Greg, we lost him, suddenly he had taken his life. And so it was just shock on top of shock on top of emotional trying to sort through it all, carrying not just your kids with that topic. And with the loss of their father, we had just moved into a new neighbourhood, they're still getting us to a school, but also his extended family, who really were not prepared for it. So you're carrying the weight of a lot of communication, I was the keeper of the information of the story of the why I was the keeper of it. So how do you want to release information to your kid as needed your kids to age specific time specific, three, be always thinking they're listening to you. They're watching you. They're listening to you. They're listening to the adults around them. They're listening to the moms at the bus stop. So be very consistent in your messaging, and know that they might hear it from someone else. So What messages do you want them to hear from you? So I think the very first thing because my kids were younger, we had moved around so much like military life, every two years, we've pretty much moved, they switch schools. So they were used to some of that transition that upheaval, because my husband travelled a lot, not having him in the home wasn't shocking. So it was a blessing for me. So we didn't really have to deal with that feels weird. Daddy's not here, because we were often on our own for months at a time. But to let them know just that we were going to be okay, I was going to be able to keep my house, they were going to be able to go to college, Mommy, Daddy worked with a financial planner. Even before you guys were born, we had life insurance, we're going to be okay, mommy will have to go back to work, we're going to have to that he made all the money. I had stepped away from my career for seven years to follow them abroad. So that was all they needed for that point in time. When that time came about two years later, and during a family discussion, it came clear that they weren't really comfortable in the house because he had passed there. I've said another podcast, you should see how quickly a for sale sign goes on the front lawn when your kids are like we don't quite feel good in the house. We don't like being that house. But in reality, it was a call to my financial planner, it was can I do this? What's the threshold for the house I can qualify for for mortgage, where can I go. And that was actually conversation with the kids, we can stay in this district. But I can only afford blank house, we can go bigger and have to put a lot of work into it. Or we can go smaller and just be able to relax and move in. And of course, you know, I love my kids, but they're greedy. They're like bitter, right. And so in essence, my current husband was the guy who helped me do the repair. So that helps you work part time nights and weekends and on like contractor and House Repairs. And that's how I originally had met him than live separated. And we met again. So Who knew Who knew that moved two years later was gonna get me a husband 10 years later, but it did some blessings everywhere. But that was one of the conversation with the kids like, Alright, we're going to be patient, then we are going to be living in a work zone for two years to get this house pulled together. As well as now we can have a jet tub, we have to repeat the tub that we have. That's the budget part of it. And then also what I did go back to school for a little bit when I decided to switch my career, even the time management like Alright, guys, Mommy's not working part time now. I'm 10 months back into school, I'm also having to study so there's no income, and I'm studying. So this is oodles of noodles. And in a can of Spaghettios Have a good day, like those of us that don't have time to cook and we might not have the budget to get the organic food I love to feed you. We have to understand this. And they did good. They are so resilient. And we give them credit for does it move forward. And then as my career started to establish, that was another conversation. I'm going to have to hire a nanny, because I have to go back to work. And I have to put in very long hours. Are we okay with this? And it was almost here I am asking almost for buy in from a 14 year old, a 15 year old and an 11 year old at that point in time. But I was asking, I don't know why. I was asking for their permission to be okay to go do it. They were great with it. I actually thought I was really cool to hang out with and so was the nanny. They were like she's awesome. She gives us Twizzlers in the car and then with a baseball you do not Yeah, because that sits in your teeth. And that's gross. Terrible for you. But

Kristen

that's beside the point.

Donna

That was helpful. And I also knew how much money I had to support myself while I relaunched my career for many of us in divorce and widowhood. Or maybe when we've been let go or relocate. We're starting from zero on the income stream again. How long can our savings support us? How long can Social Security help us? Win? Am I like lose that when my kids turn 18? Or are they a little bit older in the birth bracket. So they get to stay one more year on social security because that really helped guide me on kickstarting my own career. And that was really important and the kids also knew that

Kristen

that's communication and processing real time I always recommend process the emotions process the experience, talk about it, don't shove it under the rug and pretend it didn't happen. Get it out just like and finances, talk about it versus pretending like it's not an issue. How do you start having conversations with your kids about finances? I mean, like the budget, and here's what that looks like. And here's what this means.

Donna

Yeah, I give all the credit in the world to my mom and dad, like they lived on a budget themselves. I've referenced already in this podcast, the envelope system, my mom and dad actually had physical envelopes, and one would say entertainment, one would say groceries, one would say filled allowance, one would say Marlene is allowance, and my mom will my dad's paycheck. I remember her filling it with cash, she put a big rubber band around it, and she would hide it between the sheets, the pickle winter drape. So my mom no longer has winter drapes, so you can't find where her money. That's where her it is, in the winter drapes, I remember my dad, in between networks, pulling out the envelopes. And taking 20 Out of my leans allowance and putting it into film. I was like, No, you can't do that, to Mommy's like, she doesn't go anywhere. But that's how I knew like when the envelope is empty, we can't go to the food store. When the envelope is empty, we might have to take out of entertainment, which was let the movies once every three months. And we were not going to the movies because we need that money for food that got hurt. So we're on 60% of my salary. Those watching my parents do that was really important. So as children, we had an allowance. So we know we wanted something extra, it had to come out of our allowance. Because the envelopes were the envelopes that was secured money, we can't touch that. So I wish and thankful that my parents taught me that and that I share that with my kids. But I'll also tell you, I'm human. And when my husband passed, I didn't want them to worry about anything. And I didn't want them to stress them out. So I took my foot off the gas and I spoiled them. Now that less a little bit of time to realise sometimes what overindulging your kids will do and that I had a pullback and I had a grip. But again, and I wish I never would have taken my foot off the gas. Now we can't live in looking back, we just make the decisions you can. And maybe that was really healthy for the first year. But it was hard for me to teach them again, the value of $1. And when did we do that? When I stopped working, to go back to school, start my own business. And that was really almost instead of trying to teach the lesson, it was sitting down and seriously having that heart to heart, it's going to be tight. This is what it means to be tight.

Kristen

I'm so glad you said that because you'll see in a lot of divorce situations to guilt. And so they'll overcompensate with buying my mom did that she self medicated with shopping. And so she would order off QVC this is when HSN and QVC like started. And the UPS man knew my name with my parents got divorced. And my mom shot I mean to self medicate her whatever feelings she was going through. And I saw that as a child and I thought, Oh, if she would buy us stuff out of guilt, because she felt guilty about the divorce and taught me a lot about money taught me a lot about saving really did even though we can say oh, that was maybe not the best experience. I'm actually grateful for it. Because I feel like it created a different money mindset for me. I love that you

Donna

say that money mindset. Well that like that's what it is very and Okay, think about it. When I just thought about my dad borrowing from my mom's I've looked put in his that taught me a value like, oh, do I trust my husband with my money? It's my husband and daughter that I was six. I had never met my husband, but my husband and I had to work through the fact that is he gonna take anything I earn. Yes, different. And it's also different because my parents, my mom didn't work until my parents divorced. And then she had to work. Oh, and she had no credit in her name. She was Mrs. Phil theft. That was it. And she couldn't get a car. And she couldn't qualify for anything. So I watched her struggle through that. The takeaway, oh, I'm not going to struggle like that. Every utility was in my name, which was helpful after Greg passed was all my name. But that was simply because I watched my mom, like you said, like, I'm so grateful that she struggled because it helped set the mindset of how I was going to do it differently. The next generation,

Kristen

I think self awareness and looking at family systems is so important. And people like why don't want to dwell or blame them. I'm like, I'm not blaming my mom. I'm not blaming her at all. I'm all this taught me what I would do and don't want to do moving forward what I liked what I didn't like for my mom and my dad, and I'm grateful for it. So if we can take a different perspective of oh, let me reflect how were things how are the finances handled? How are emotions handled in the family system? What have I maybe internalised that I didn't realise I'm the same as you. I was like, I'm gonna save my money. I'm gonna manage my money. I'm gonna own it. I was one of those. And then when I got married, we went to premarital counselling, two months into dating, which was the best investment I ever made. Well, Doug, and we talked about money and we talked about how our parents overspent and how that is something we both wanted to change and work on. And we have course marriage just have their ups and downs, but really on the grand scheme was the best investment we ever made. And we're on the same page about finances. That's why it's so important. What's your advice on transparency, communication, because that ends up being people have marital conflict, but it's deeper than what it looks like. They think it's about the money, but it's deeper, it's childhood, really conditioning and mindset that has to be explored

Donna

100%. And that's why I always say to my clients, it's not just you right? Now, you might need that helping hand, you might need a counsellor out there to help you, you might need the emotional freedom technique to get out of your own way. For some of those things as biases that run is the script in the back of our head. And everything is out there for us if we need it. And let's find the resource to help. I always remember having the conversation with my husband, when we were neck and neck on the income. We call ourselves up sorry, we're both educated, remote thinking, blessed have to be hard workers with good income to get that single house in the suburbs, our first house like how we did this, well, here come kids, and here comes a relocation for his job. So how did I feel when I was making just as much as him very established in my freedom, after watching my mom go through a divorce, to give up my career to give up the years of building my career to follow him abroad. Now, that was a big conversation for us. And both of us had to recognise that wasn't just the money, we could pick, oh, he makes more I make more who can make more in a tenure stream who can inflate who has a cap? Those are all money decisions. But could I give up feeling self reliant and really relying on his income? And let me tell you that came back fiercely after I lost Greg, again, financial planning, life insurance, understanding, we were okay. But that insecurity came right back. And so Greg had to work a lot. When I gave up my career to make sure that emotionally, I could work through that. And that we did, too. We went to counselling before we went abroad, not because there was a problem to make sure we didn't have a problem moving forward to make sure we were on the same page transparent in I say that word a lot.

Kristen

I love that word.

Donna

I love that really forthcoming in? Yeah, I feel like I'm making a sacrifice. So please, please help me maybe pull back on the budget a little bit. Because I feel nervous spending, I want to have the bigger cash reserve, because I know my income isn't there anymore. So that will make me feel better. If I have more available cash, just to look at just the bank that made me feel better. That was one of the compromises.

Kristen

I like how you're sharing about what you needed, and why you needed it. And then you were able to communicate from like, this is how much? I'm not sure if you said specifically, this is how much I want to see in reserves, because I find that people want to see a certain number and reserves if possible.

Donna

Sure. Financial Planner, we're always like three to six months look takes you to be you. But maybe I needed to see 16,000 Maybe Greg need to see 32. That's emotional. And we have to find out the why behind it. Respect it or talk it through.

Kristen

What are the top three, I would say the most important pieces that you've learned being a widow, as it regards to finances, what are the top three? Would you say?

Donna

One breathe, I call it the 24 hour rule. If it's a bigger decision, allow yourself to breathe, not overanalyze. It's not what we're saying. But not every decision has to be made right away. Because I do find that during widowhood, you have so many helpful people that are might be giving you what they think is the best advice ever. You might have to double check that for their situation that might have worked and might not work for your soy one, breathe, give yourself 24 hours. Do your research, too. And it kind of conflicts with number one, listen to your belly, you know, in your gut, you know if it's right, if it's wrong. So when you're breathing when you have that 24 Hour Rule, don't shut off, don't shut off that belly. There's no right or wrong decision. It's just forward movement. And I do believe that three, have forgiveness for yourself. You already heard me say like, yeah, I took my foot off the gas, and I spoiled the heck out of them. And then I had had to go to little boot camps like already, but forgive yourself because you're doing the best you can and when none of us have a crystal ball. So forgive yourself that way. If I'm gonna put my financial hat on one cash reserve, have six months of what it does cost you to be you because we are on our own. And we might have streams of fixed income like Social Security or pension or who have life insurance money that came in. But for many of us, we've never had that much money in our hands before. Get your financials, get your six months put aside and then pause and then get some guidance. The second one is take care of immediate needs. know which ones are transitional. You might have to make all those decisions. Right now. I talked about giving yourself breathing room a 24 hour rule. It might be don't give yourself a three to five MONTH RULE before you make that decision. It's not urgent, feel free to table it. And then there's long term goals. I remember being like I'm a person that has goals in country Rolling run towards them. Oh my god, the goals I set after two months after Greg died were completely different three months later, completely different Three years later, completely different five years later. And now when I look back at the 10 year mark, I'm like, oh my god, what was I thinking? That's okay, give yourself those long term goals and let them change if they need to. Three, find your tribe, not everyone is going to have your best intentions at heart. But many will. And many of times, it's the people that you don't even know are in your community, who are your biggest cheerleaders. So find your confidant, find your one person to walk down your side that one person to take with you, when you make your state documents, because we're filled with emotion, we need someone else to take the notes. We need someone else to listen to I as a financial planner, I play that role for many of my clients, I will just sit in the back of the Zoom Room, I'm just taking notes. That's me, because we are quickly and emotionally involved in accounting decisions and estate documents, especially when we feel vulnerable about money or about our financial security. So get that tribe, then with that find your tribe take the help when they offer it. There's no academy award for being the best Griever I tried it. I thought I was I was faking it. Year to came and it was like, I just faked it for the whole past year. And by that time, I had said no to somebody that people wanted to help and I felt alone. Let people help. Be wary. Have those two trusted confidence. They're the trusted ones. But yeah, but someone's got to offer a meal train. Okay, if someone's gonna say, I'll bring your son back from baseball, you go home and take a bubble bath. Oh my god. Yes. You're gonna go for a wine. How about a box? Those are the things that you need to be willing to say yes to. I was a little bit too stubborn. I wish I would have said yes, a little more.

Kristen

That's really good. Those are all six of those. It's excellent. And so, so helpful. Is there anything that we missed that you feel like is important to tell our listeners?

Donna

I think the biggest message I just want to share out there is you're not alone. There are lots of resources out there. You have your therapist, you have your group counselling, you have Grief Recovery method, you have your church, you have your community, it's okay to be private, but you are certainly not alone. Not in your finances, not in your emotions, not in caregiving for your kids. And if you're an older widow, you're not alone in life, reach out, have the support where you need it and when you need it. And that's there's nothing shameful to it. Nothing at all. That's what we're about. That's community that's living in this beautiful country of ours take advantage of

Kristen

support is essential. It's essential. Where can people find you? If they're interested in learning more, you gave so much helpful wisdom?

Donna

Well, I think you So yep, the website is www widow dash wisdom that calm there, you can find out the book, you can download this free resource that personal Document Locator talked about free download there. And you can also link into the podcast with the wisdom and wealth that's available to Instagram widow in wisdom. That's where to have a little fun if their spelling errors. I'm sorry, I don't know how to correct the captions. I'm a financial planner and a mommy. My daughter always calls me from college that you got another typo? I don't know. I don't know what I'm doing.

Kristen

Like, just give me some grace. Yeah,

Donna

I think that no set curve is very bad. And the most recent one, that's the word that is like I'm like, What was I saying? I was like, oh, it's no set curve. Yeah, that didn't translate. But that's it, widow dash wisdom.com. And you'll find the world of health. That's where you can also link into the Grief Recovery method. If anyone's in the Philadelphia area. I do that in person, no charge. And our next group is a second week of September on Wednesday nights. We're always rolling that through.

Kristen

That's fantastic. Thank you so much for your wisdom, your heart and your energy, and just turning your pain into purpose to help others. I'm so grateful for you. And I know this will be helpful to others. So thank you so so much.

Donna

Go I hope so thank you for having me. Kristin. Let me spread a little wisdom around. I appreciate you.

Kristen

Thank you so much for listening to the close the chapter podcast. My hope is that you took home some actionable steps, along with motivation, inspiration and hope for making sustainable change in your life. If you enjoy this episode, click the subscribe button to be sure to get the updated episodes every week and share with a friend or a family member. And for more information about how to get connected visit kristendboice.com. Thanks and have a great day.