Kristen

Welcome to the Close the Chapter podcast. I am Kristen Boice a licenced Marriage and Family Therapist with a private practice pathways to healing counselling. Through conversations, education, strategies and shared stories. We will be closing the chapter on all the thoughts, feelings, people and circumstances that don't serve you anymore. And open that door to possibilities

Kristen

and the real you. You won't want to miss an episode so be sure to subscribe Welcome to this week's close the chapter podcast. Thank you so much for joining me I know you have so many options when it comes to podcasts to listen to. And the fact that you're here with me means the world. I hope this is helpful in your healing journey to grow, expand, learn more about yourself and others and how to be the best version of yourself. Before we jump into this episode, be sure to grab the free journal at kristendboice.com/free resources. You definitely want that that'll go along with our conversation today. I recorded this back at the end of January. We love to do that. So then we have recorded versions of the podcast. So we're not scrambling for an episode that week. And the reason why we pushed it to May is because she has a book coming out. And I think this topic is not talked about very often because we have a misnomer about what Bipolar disorder is. And I think it's important that we elevate the conversation about it and it's different for everyone. So please keep that in mind. vasavi Kumar, my guest also uses a little bit of salty language, so I thought I would just disclaim that a little bit.

Let me introduce you to my guest today. Vasavi is often described as the Queen of saying it out loud. A first generation Indian immigrant raised on Long Island, New York vasavi has relentlessly searched to find her own voice, access the freedom of her creative spirit and help others along the way out loud. When she was diagnosed with bipolar disorder at the age of 19. She made it her mission to understand how her mind works starting with making room to hear herself think her mission is to share the fullness of the human experience the good the bad, the ugly, in order to teach a more mindful, practical and simple way of creating every aspect of your life. Through her say it out loud podcasts workshops, keynote talks, group programmes, social media, and her newsletter. vasavi has taught 1000s of entrepreneurs, creatives and artists from all walks of life, how to move through any situation by saying it out loud. She is a TV host licenced therapist speaker voiceover artists creator of sight out loud, safe haven, an online support community. Now she holds dual master's degree in special education and then social work from Columbia University. She also has a brand new book called Say it out loud. I'm so excited for her and you'll want to grab the book if you resonate with our conversation today. And I want to read the subtitle of our book, using the power of your voice to listen to your deepest thoughts and courageously pursue your dreams. We talked a lot about family relationships relationship with her mother and father and how that has kind of impacted and shaped her we talked about family systems, how to not stifle your voice how to harness your truth deconstruct the layer, kind of the programming you've been given and free yourself to be yourself. So without further ado, here is my powerful interview with vasavi Kumar. Welcome to this week's close the chapter podcast I'm having an encore guest because she was so impactful helpful to so many people that listened to the episode I'll link the previous episode in the show notes. She was coming out with her book she had mentioned it and kind of teased it on the last episode and it's finally going to hit stores may 16. It's called Say it out loud. Vos Sufi, welcome back.

Vasavi

Thank you so much, Kristen. I just want all your listeners to know how kind and generous you are having me back on the podcast. I don't take it for granted. I'm really happy and appreciative to be here today. Thank you.

Kristen

I am so grateful. You're here with us to talk about your mental health journey your therapist, retired therapist, coach, you're doing so many amazing things in your life and you're still on a journey of healing and self discovery. And that's one of the most important factors I wanted to say today. Because we think we hit a finish line and we really don't it's a delusion, it's a sham. It's ongoing delayering ourselves. It will be from the rest of my life because it helps me feel more alive. So I'm so We're glad you're here with me to talk about kind of your journey with bipolar disorder, how you've learned to have more clear, direct and authentic conversations and listening to how to discern the different voices in your head. So tell me when you discovered you had bipolar disorder, let's start there.

Vasavi

So it's really interesting. I was a sophomore in college, I went to BU Boston University for two years. When I was a freshman, I was like, Oh my God, a fish out of water, or like a bird that's been caged because I grew up in a very sheltered home. I'm a first generation Indian immigrant. My parents, of course, we like didn't want their daughters to be like tainted by American culture. Their philosophy was to keep us sheltered and say no, a lot. So when I went to college, I went buck wild when I was a freshman, and it was freshman year. No, it was sophomore year that my behaviour was very indicative of very manic what is what we would like classify as manic symptoms, right, hypersexual, I drank a lot, I use a lot of drugs, I basically had two to three hours asleep. I wasn't doing well in school, obviously, because of all these lifestyle habits and changes that I had. But I was taking a psychology class because I've always been interested in why people are the way they are, or why I was the way I was. It's really what it was about me. And I remember we did a whole section on mood disorders. And then I was studying about bipolar disorder. And I was looking through the manic symptoms, and I'm like, I have all of these, but I was like, whatever. I just disregarded it. But I couldn't finish school because I had a 1.3 GPA. I was using cocaine all the time. I was sleeping around a lot. Just very outside of my upbringing and my character and how I normally have lived my life. And so my mother, sophomore year of college, she goes, and by the way, it rarely listen to my mother. But when she said to me, I think you need to come home. I said, Okay. And I came home. And I said to her, she's a doctor. I said, I think I have bipolar disorder. And she asked me, Why do you think you have that? But I couldn't tell her mom, I've been promiscuous mom. I've been using cocaine. I couldn't tell her that because of the culture. I told her instead, I have racing thoughts. I don't sleep a lot. I told her the safe stuff. Didn't know the whole truth. But then she did. When I transferred back home and I moved back to New York. We went to a psychiatrist Dr. David Ginsburg on 59th and Lexington, one of the best psychiatrists in New York and he said to my mom, your daughter is brilliant. She's spot on. She has bipolar disorder. So yeah, that's when I got diagnosed when I was 19 years old.

Kristen

In high school. Did you have symptoms in high school, or middle school or as a child?

Vasavi

Listen, here's how I feel about having bipolar disorder. I've been allowing myself I use cannabis to help my brain. Cannabis has helped me a lot with my impulsivity. With how I treat myself. I've slowed down a lot. And what I've come to understand as my bipolar disorder didn't start in high school, when I think about the bipolar part of my brain, it is the most traumatised part of my brain that has felt it has to be vigilant and make sure that no one's going to hurt me again. I remember this, I have taken an edible Kristen, and I allowed myself to melt. I like to use cannabis medicinally I enjoy melting into my body. I've allowed a lot of repressed memories to come to the surface. And I remember maybe four years old, I think I had just started nursery school, South Shore Country Day School. And I remember this memory, it's the earliest memory I have a feeling the most extreme abandonment, I felt my mom she was wearing her white coat because she's a doctor. She dropped me off to school, which was rare because she was the busy one, my father had more flexibility in his practice and location where he worked. And I remember this memory her dropping me off to nursery school. And I just remember how I felt. I felt so abandoned. I didn't know what the time she had to go to work. But I remember screaming, crying, wailing and holding on to her apron. I'm not saying that was the start of my bipolar disorder. There are many things. But there's definite split that I've had inside of me this part of my brain that is hyper vigilant, hyper terrified, hyper sensitive to rejection and abandonment that started way before my teens that started from a very young age of just feeling like I am too much. This is too much. No one can handle me I am not safe. So that's my answer to your question.

Kristen

I could see the emotion coming up when you are sharing that memory, that inner child memory,

Vasavi

obviously, yeah, I think about it. And I don't hold back my emotions when I share this because I think I want to let everyone know you can have book, you can have the nice car, you can have money in the bank, you can have all the followers. So I never want to come on here and be like, Oh, it's all packaged pretty in a bow. Yes, there are lots of things that I have healed. The way that I speak to myself is with way more kindness. I think maybe even you can even see that and have witnessed because you've known me now for I think a little over a year and we have followed each other you've seen my maybe you've even felt something different. I don't know you can share that. But I definitely feel a shift with how I've treated myself. I just don't want people to think like oh, it just goes away. I say new level new devil, right with every level of visibility that I'm experiencing. I have More and more deeply embedded shit that's finally coming to the surface. So I don't say wait a minute, I thought I figured this out. It's like, Oops, okay, here we go. All right, what's there, it's even deeper, deeper healing for me. So that's where I'm at right now. And an ongoing process.

Kristen

And I think your transparency with it gives other people permission to go, Oh, there's another layer here, there's a deeper, and I've done some hypnosis, I don't know if you've done any guided hypnosis at all. If you don't love it, oh, you're going. It's like a deep relaxation is what it is. And people don't know what it is. I'm in my mom's womb. I mean, that is the depth of where the work can take you. And the burning process. And I just want to let people know like, it goes deep, it's in your nervous system, it lives in your body. And when you can come to befriend the body befriend yourself is what you're saying. It gives you full permission to go, Okay, I'm safe enough to go here to face that pain.

Vasavi

There have been times that if I've been in a conflict with somebody, I wouldn't even want to look at their response to a text because I was so afraid of what they might say. And that really had a lot to do with did I piss them off? Are they no longer my friend? are they cutting me off? I now No, that is not the reality. That is definitely my fear and what I've experienced, I have created such a beautiful sense of safety in my head by learning how to talk to those voices in my head that nothing. I'm not afraid of anyone. I'm not afraid of what you think of me, I'm not afraid of what you're saying, I'm not even afraid of you leaving me anymore, because I have made. So that's kind of the beauty of this work, right learning how to talk to the voices in your head. I don't think your listeners are going to be confused by this. I want to make it clear, though, that you can be extremely confident in who you are, and still have healing to do I am one of the most confident, secure people that I know. And I feel very safe inside of me now. Do I still have moments of insecurity? Yes. Do I still feel unsafe and shit scared like, Oh, my God, what's going to of course, but I don't stay there for too long. Because I know how to manage it. I know how to talk to myself. I'm in a relationship with myself. What would I do if I was dating someone? What would I do if I was married to someone? Would I just be like, Oh, I thought you already got over that? No. I would be like, Honey, what's going on? Let's talk. Why would I not do that with myself? So that's the journey that we're all on whether we're partnered or single or divorced or whatever, you know what I mean?

Kristen

It's so powerful. It's one of the greatest gifts you can give to yourself is to free yourself to be yourself.

Vasavi

Listen, the corny or the better. Right Kristen says how it rolls here.

Kristen

How do you think therapy has helped you in your life? Navigate the mania navigate the self doubt the shame the voices in your head?

Vasavi

Well, I want your listeners to know I started therapy when I was 12. I was in therapy for 16 years consistently every week for 16 years. When I was younger, I needed someone to talk to I had my therapist, Virginia, I couldn't really talk to my parents that much. My mom was very explosive. My father shut down. Very bipolar parenting, just saying very manic, very depressive. Is that interesting? Oh, yeah, please, there's no part of me that's like this. I was not born this way. I was shaped this way. I was not born this way. God did not make me like this. I was shaped to be this way. I can also unshaped myself. And it takes time that we've been talking about 40 years of programming 40 years. And even though I've been doing this work, it's still we have so many layers to us. What was your original question by

Kristen

so therapy? How has it helped? And then you're saying you had an explosive Mom, Dad shut down? Yeah, here we are with mirroring bipolar what is external mirroring of internally in your head, and inside?

Vasavi

This is a great moment in real time for your listeners to know old vasavi would be embarrassed to ask you what's the question again? But I don't have that voice that's shaming me. I answered what I thought felt in the moment and but then I forgot your original question. There's no shame in me asking. I just want to show that in real time. That's when you hear those voices. You don't mind saying can you repeat that? Again? I'm not worried about your thinking. I'm stupid. I literally forgot. I don't know what you ask. So thank you for that. But that's a real time moment of what happens when you hear the voices. therapy has helped me a lot. I'm back in therapy, I now have a male therapist, which is new for me. I used to use therapy to just talk it out loud, say it out loud and be validated. How I'm using my therapist now is I allow myself to be triggered by my therapist, which has been very new for me. My therapist brings up all of my shit with men. Why aren't you responding? Why aren't you feeling my pain? Take away my pain. Can you say something? My therapist is very grounded. He does not talk. He talks when he needs to. He is a listener. He's holding space. And for me, I'm like, say more. I need you to say more. And we had a really huge breakthrough two weeks ago when I basically screamed at him and I was like, why aren't you taking away my pain? And I just started wailing. And he said to me, who didn't take away your pain? Amen. I said, Neither of my parents they added to it by making me feel shitty. And I felt victime. In that moment, I felt like I was blaming them. therapy has helped me to see that it's okay for me to say, and I'm responsible. Now, I am allowed to say that letting myself feel that has been the greatest freedom for me and love my parents very much. I think I've shared this with you, Kristen, I love them. It doesn't take away from the love

Kristen

into both, you can handle duality, and also feel much deep, profound love for them.

Vasavi

And there's no right way to say this right? My voice Vasa B's voice says, but I'm going to do something about it. Right? Somebody else might say I had a really difficult childhood, and now I'm responsible for it. The point is, therapy has allowed me to find the voice that is most authentic. When I want to express my anger when I want to express my frustration, I allow myself to have a pity party. But I also know how to shift into my friend talks about this in her book, she talks about a more fatty a more fatty means lover of one's fate. I know how to go from pity party and I know how to speak about my life in a way that breeds new energy and fresh energy into it. So therapy has helped me just allow myself to say exactly what I want to say without judging myself for how I'm saying it. We don't need to judge ourselves for saying the thing. And then judging ourselves for how we said it. I'm not into it. I allow myself to say whatever the hell I want in therapy without being judged and allows me to express it. I think we've talked about this Kristen, maybe like emotional constipation. I don't like to keep those feelings inside because he just eats away at me and I am a creative channel. God needs to move through me. God cannot move through me if I'm sitting here constipated with these voices of resentment, anger, frustration, all the things so it's helped me clear myself internally.

Kristen

You know what came up for me? As you're sharing it, you're gonna go Oh, here she goes. Because this is may do on me. Yeah. What came up for me and this may be a stretch, and you can tell me to take a hike. It came up for me. I was wondering if your therapist has different but similar to your dad, your dad can listen, hold space, not say a lot. And I was like, Is there a similarity? Not that they're the same. But yeah,

Vasavi

yeah. You don't have to take a hike. We're on this journey together. No, my therapist reminds me of my father. I to this day, when I look at my father, I will cry. I love that man. I don't think I've ever loved somebody the way I love my father, I love him. Our relationship growing up was like, my dad was like a little boy. And I was like a little girl. And we just have fun playing together. That was me and my dad, he was not the disciplinary. And my mother was, he was the fun parent. He was the understanding parent, he was the gentle parent. And I could just sit next to my dad and feel better. But I'm older now. And I want someone to speak to me, I want I want to know that you hear me. I want to know that you understand me and I need you to say something sometimes

Kristen

out loud what's going on inside you? Yeah, Dad to say it out loud.

Vasavi

And it's funny because now he has a neurological condition which keeps him from speaking, which hinders his speech, which is just so to che man that you're spot on. My therapist really brought up what I wanted from my own father, which was say something to make me feel better. I'm the child here. So I have shared that with my therapist, and it's been healing, I've been able to heal that anger through my therapist. I'm using my therapist in a different way. Now. It's very interesting. It's very new for me,

Kristen

and then wanting to protect you, maybe from your mom's explosiveness, say something do so yeah,

Vasavi

I had a memory come up the other day, maybe this might be too much, but maybe somebody needs to hear it. I remember there was a time my mom wanted to hit me. And I was hiding behind my father and my father was blocking me and trying to keep my mother from hitting me. My father was my protector. I'm not angry with my mother. She's apologised more times than she needs to. And I've forgiven her, but it's just very much like who's going to protect me? Who's gonna stand up for me? That's been a lot to work through. Man. I'm not freaking thing. I was gonna cry this

Kristen

interview like, Oh, come on, Chapter podcast. We do motions here. And they're all welcome. All the parts of us are welcome. That's what you're saying to everybody. All the parts are welcome. That's the work you're doing.

Vasavi

That's what we talked about what I wrote inside my book, say it out loud, using the power of your voice to listen to your deepest thoughts, and courageously pursue your dreams. Every single chapter in the book is a voice that I have identified that we need to learn how to heal. We need to learn how to speak to the voice inside of us that makes us believe that we're helpless and powerless. We need to speak to the voice when we're irritable and we don't allow ourselves to be triggered because Oh, as women we have to come off as perfect. Nothing bothers me. This is emotional perfectionism. I talked about this in the book, we need to learn how to talk to the voice of resistance. You know, when you have to sit down and do some work or do the thing that you know your soul is calling you to do but you're resistant I teach you how to talk to the voice of resistance. Every single chapter in the book identifies a different voice inside of us that we need to heal and speak to not heal speak to. I don't want you to say quiet I don't even need to quiet these boys. I'm not trying to shush myself. I'm done shushing the voices in my head. I know how to talk to them. Now. I don't need to push myself. I don't push myself anymore. And I don't want my readers to push themselves. I want them to learn how to speak to and talk back to and understand and be more compassionate and curious with the voices in their head.

Kristen

I just had something come up did you get as a kid? Did you get shushed because that's triggering to kids to be shushed?

Vasavi

I literally say in the introduction, Kristen, how ironic it is. How ironic is it? I'm actually going to just read this I have, please right here. I say let me be the first to say that me writing a book titled say it out loud is proof that you have the power to create anything you want when you learn how to talk to yourself. You see, when I was a kid, I talked a lot my mother would have jokingly say to me, vasavi Schumann, which loosely translates in our native language of thummell as vasavi stop talking. So it's kind of ironic for me to be writing a book called Say it out loud, don't you think? And then I go on to say, imagine if I actually listened to my mother and stop talking and shushed myself, we would not be here today. So I rarely listen to my mother. And yeah, I'm just a force of nature. You can't shut me up, you cannot shut me up. I'm not here to be positive. I'm here to do good work in the world. And that's not the same thing. I don't care if you think I'm positive or negative, you have some labour, I'm doing good work in the world. And sometimes that means saying things Christen that are uncomfortable. Sometimes it means saying things that are going to piss you off and trigger you. That is not my intention. My intention is not to piss you off. But if it pisses you off, that's a really great opportunity for you to ask yourself, What's going on inside of me. So I'm not here to be anybody's best friend. I'm not here to be the person that you idolise. I don't want to be idolised, I'm here to speak the truth. Either you love it or you don't love it. That's not my problem, though. My problem is to do the work that I'm meant to do, which is to help those who are suffering in silence. And I do that by saying it out loud and saying the things that people don't want to hear, but they need to hear.

Kristen

And here's the key with this, you've prayed that you're doing so much work around this because people are so afraid of disconnection, abandonment, rejection, not having worth value, feeling less than and so they're afraid of upsetting someone else, I don't want to hurt them. I don't want to say something that's gonna offend them. I don't want them to be mad at me. I don't want to get dysregulated which is our inner child stuff. Because that's how we felt with our parents. I mean, we didn't want them to be mad at us. Because then that meant I'm disconnected from my parent. And I don't want that. So it's a very young part of us that feels this trying to manage the other person's emotions and how they're going to feel about us. What are the key things you've done? You've said you're nurturing these parts of yourself to be able to sit in that discomfort of someone's upset with you. Someone's may be mad at you. Someone may be at how do you and how have you gotten to the place where you can go, okay, they may be in, that's their staff.

Vasavi

The first thing that I do always is when I'm in fear or scared that good My thing is, please don't be mad at me. I swear, just don't leave me. I promise I won't do anything. It's abandonment for me. First thing that I do is very much acknowledge how I'm feeling. I don't do anything. You know, a lot of people are like, go for a run, go for a walk for me. I don't want to run from that. That's great. If that's you, for me, I sit with myself. I didn't have that growing up. I didn't have someone to just sit with me. put their arms around me Tell me it's gonna be okay. By the way, for those of you who like to go run, I'm not saying anything about that. But I do think that there is value in just sitting and being with it and not immediately putting on your sneakers and getting out the door. I do think a lot of times when we do that when just look to see what do you do to not have to feel that pain? If it's Oh, I gotta go for an eight mile run. Wow. Okay, you need to run for eight miles. That's great. But have you actually sat and acknowledged your feelings? Everyone's process is different. So please don't come at me with like, Oh, don't tell me not to

Kristen

run for you. Your metaphor of what are you running from?

Vasavi

What are you running from? I do think there is power in just sitting in silence holding yourself if you want to play some soothing music that's fine. If you want to make a nice drink my mom did you choose to make me warm milk with Horlicks? I don't know if you know what, horlicks that Indian love to drink. You make me warm milk. And she said, come sit with me after she yelled at me. So yeah, for me, I have to acknowledge first I feel this way. And I say I literally say out loud I'm scared right now this person is going to leave me this person is not going to like me anymore. Second thing that I do is actually validate myself because oftentimes when I'm worried that someone is mad at me, it's usually right after I have spoken my truth, right after I have said something like how I actually feel like oh, you've hurt me or I feel like I don't like this interaction or whatever. Usually right after I speak my truth. I'm like, oh, did I upset them or they're not going to be my friend. I validate out of myself. That doesn't mean I say I'm right. It means it is okay that I feel this way. Like this is how I feel this is I accept when I say validate, I'm accepting. I'm accepting that this is my reality right now. I am scared. I have just said something. I am worried If this person is not going to like me, I accept it, I validate how I'm feeling, I don't do anything about it, I don't reach out to the other person, I don't reach out and say, Hey, are you upset, I don't do any of that. I have to spend time with myself to soothe myself and tell myself I'm going to be okay. And then from that calm place, if I want to reach out, I will. Typically what's happened is, once I get myself to a calm state is easier for me to reach out, or my friend will reach out to me, I don't have a lot of conflicts, I'm just gonna be really honest, at the age of 40, I don't have any friendships in my life that I don't feel safe around, that I don't feel safe in. So that's another thing that I want to say is I'm very grateful that I don't have a single person in my life that does not celebrate me. And that does not love me, for me, no one. Except, I don't think my mom really knows what to do with me. But I think she has just accepted that this is who I am. And I'm not doing this for my parents. I don't need that anymore. I don't need that. My thing when I say to my mom is I don't need you to agree with me. I don't need you to try to make up for childhood but don't keep re traumatising me, when we were kids. So I've had to learn to keep my distance from my family. So that's another thing is that I give myself a lot of space. When I feel especially with my mother or with my sister or people very close to me, I do not try to fix things right away, I give myself space and just allow myself to be with usually it settles down. I don't do much. I don't do anything. There's nothing to do, I need to be with myself. I'm a huge advocate of where you got to smoke some flour, do some oil, take some oil edibles. For me that has helped me to get out of my head and just allow myself to feel I am an over thinker, I have typically been an over thinker, I have been in my head a lot. I've manipulated a lot of situations. And we think of manipulation as an evil thing. I say this, I know from a young age exactly what to say to not piss somebody off. I also know exactly what to say, to piss you off, to piss you off. So it's a blessing and a curse when you can hurt someone because you know, their weakest points. It's also a blessing in a way because it's like you learn to survive that way. And I don't want to live in a way that I have to micromanage and rehearse what I'm going to say I no longer rehearse my conversations, I used to do that a lot. I used to rehearse what I'm going to say so that I could just say it, and then just make sure that I'm gonna say things that people aren't going to be upset. And now I don't do that anymore. I'm very much in the moment. And I'll say exactly what I feel in the moment. I'm out of my head a lot of the times

Kristen

these days. So how does mania play into that

Vasavi

mania, for me, I'm bipolar disorder, type one, which means I usually struggle with and you have to understand I'm running on two cycles. Here. I'm running on my bipolar disorder type one cycle, but I'm also on my hormonal my menstrual cycle. So a lot of times my depressive mania lasts for about seven days. My depression lasts for about two weeks. And it's usually congruent with my period. I see it coming. I have had to learn for the past one years to understand my triggers because it's my triggers that set off my mania. It's my triggers that put me into a depression, depression that doesn't come first. For me. My default is mania. It can be a blessing and a curse, right? I would never want to not be manic. I love my hypomania. I am creative, I feel invincible. And I do think we can all tap into that godlike energy. It becomes a curse for me when I don't know how to slow it down. And my impulsivity, I don't really have that discernment. I feeling much slower these days, I still have manic episodes, my manic episodes show up in the form of irritability. And it's usually directed towards the people closest to me, my mother and my sister, it goes back to childhood, I don't have those like manic feelings with friends. It's with the people closest to me from my family of origin, but it's manageable. And the more open, I've been talking about it, Kristen, my family is very understanding. They're very understanding. They know this is not the real me. So that feels really good, too. But the worst part about having mania is you often say things that you don't mean. And it's a lot of attack on the nervous system. When you feel that way. It's a lot. So I've had to work through that. And just being more, I gotta be honest, even I recently saw my psychiatrists, we're recording this a little earlier than when it's being released. But I saw a psychiatrist again. And even having that appointment and acknowledging what was going on has actually made the mania a little less loud. It's like when the minute you acknowledge what's going on, it's not as intense. So I've still had a little mania, I'm still dealing with a little depression. I'm just getting off of it. But it's not as intense. Because that part of me is like, Oh, now you're paying attention to me. I'm glad you finally see that I've been suffering. So it hasn't been as hard but it's still hard.

Kristen

It is hard. Is the mania representative of your pain? Are you looking for an unmet need? I'm curious.

Vasavi

I've been thinking a lot about because people in our society people are like, Oh, she's so bipolar or the weather is so bipolar. Stop referring to inanimate objects as bipolar and stop categorising someone's emotion that oh, they must be bipolar. Let me school you all are what it actually feels like. It is a type of godlike energy that I would never trade in. When I am in my A mania it is I have an energy about me, it's like, I can do anything. And I truly believe it. It's not like, oh, I can do it. No, it's like, I know I can. It is an unmet need. It's both it is the pain of not being met of not feeling safe. I'm not being heard of being dismissed. And I'm very sensitive to that. I'm very sensitive to dismissing me, you're not really hearing me, you're just trying to be right. You're just seeing what I'm displaying, which is my Oh, my, oh, my emotions are too big, you're not even in touch with your own pain, you can't be in touch with mine. So it isn't both. And it is a pain and it is an unmet need. And I am learning to meet those needs. Sometimes you just want someone else to meet them for you. But I know that the deepest work for me and the healing and the transformation is going to be is when I give it to myself. That is why I am so confident. I have tears coming down my eyes. That is why I do feel so secure and strong is because I know I got me. I do fundamentally know that now like I know, like I know, like I know, but it doesn't take away from the fact that it feels nice to get it from others.

Kristen

Yes. But I think that's so important to say, because when you're in pain, or feel lonely or feel the sense of something's wrong with us, there is a longing, a thirst to have someone go, I love you. I care about you. They're witnessing your pain, they're acknowledging it. It's like a bomb, you're just loving in embracing that part. And that is our little inner child saying you said at the beginning, can you just hold me Just love me.

Vasavi

You know, it's funny, I was talking about with my therapist, that story that I was sharing with y'all earlier about how I was wailing. This always happens to me in therapy session, we have 10 minutes left, and I unlocked something and I'm wailing. And it's fine. I never used to like having those open loops towards the end of therapy. But one thing that I've worked on with my clients and I'm still back practising therapy again, by the way, I'm no longer retired. I'm still taking on clients, very specifically on voice coaching and communication. But I said to my therapist after I wailed, he's like, are you okay? I go, Yeah, I just needed to cry. I needed someone not to judge me. I'm good. And I left therapy. And I was like, Oh, girl, where are we going out to dinner? That's what I want people to know is like, Yes, I'm crying right now. But this has been like an emotional shower. For me. It's been great. Like, yes, I'm been crying pretty much this whole interview. But things have been released. Even while we've been talking, Kristen, like you being such a sweet, kind, genuine, soft, and so aware and so emotionally intelligent, like being around you like this has been healing for me. Thank you. And so I want those of you who feel, Oh, I can't express this, oh, this is too much or No, it's not you just have been around the wrong people. You are not too much. Your emotions are not invalid. You have been around people who have made you feel that way. And once you start to validate yourself, those emotions that have really taken over and taken control, they won't, because you would have healed yourself. So I've talked about this in my book, chapter four, transform your story out loud. What are some situations that you keep experiencing over and over again? Right? It's probably because there's been unmet need, what is the need that hasn't been met? That has you creating this reliving the story over and over again, and we keep trying to find somebody? Can you help me? Okay, maybe this is going to heal me. Maybe this job is going to heal me maybe this promotion is going to heal me maybe this guy is going to heal me maybe this girl is going to heal me this therapist will heal me. I want you to think of yourself. You're the main character everyone in your life plays a supporting role. Do not give anybody main character rights in your life. You are the main character if they are not supporting you, they need to get out of your life period. That is my rule. I have come too far in my life for me to have anybody in my life who was not supporting me in some shape or form. And in order for me to get to that place I did have to walk away from some people our have to keep massive distance. It's okay though. At the end of the day, who do I go to sleep with that night, Kristen? Me? Who do I wake up in the morning next to in bed me? Who's looking in the mirror when I'm brushing me who's cooking for Me? Me? I'm doing it? So why am I not prioritising me first? It's me and me until somebody else called dark and handsome comes in and I suspect extra my bed my mother asked me this is so weird. In the Indian culture. We don't really talk about sex, but my mother was like, so are you having sex? Are we talking about this mom and I said to my mother, no one deserves to sleep next to me right now. That's how I feel. You don't deserve to sleep next to me. I'm in a place where it's like, show me what you got. Show me who you are. We're going to wait six months and then maybe I'll let you crawl into my bed with me. I am not like yeah, that's how I feel. And I'm okay being alone for right now. I'm open to love, but you're not going to just come sign up in here in my life and my bed nothing like that. And that is a result of me. Really loving myself. I like myself so much. Why would I allow anyone I enter into my life who does not treat me with the same standard that I treat myself with the same standards,

Kristen

period? That is the benefit of you staying open to exploring yourself, then you can go yeah, now that's not okay with me. I'm good with these clear directive boundaries I have for myself, and I'm good with them. I think I shared last time we were talking I took my husband to premarital therapy two months ago dating because we all have stuff. And if we can get it out on the table, isn't that liberation? Yes. I

Vasavi

mean, like, literally, we will ask where to say it out loud come from them. The earliest memory is being five and mediating my parents and saying to my dad, okay, you say it out loud. You tell mom how you feel? Yeah, like just say how you feel causes misery for everybody. By the way, you are not doing anyone, any good. Because you're suffering. And because you're suffering, you're gonna spread suffering energy to other people. Like that's just how it works. But I am not clear. And I'm filled with resentment, anger, guilt, whatever the stuff that doesn't feel good, right? No one wants to sit in that. But the more you suppress your voice, the more you're going to sit in it, the more you say it out loud. But guess what we all want to just be givers of love, and we want to receive love. That's all we want. As human beings. We want to give love we want to receive love. It goes both ways. How can you give it if you're not feeling it on the inside towards yourself? And how can you receive it if you don't think you're worth it. Or if you're filled with I'm not worthy, all these voices in our head. So that's all we want. That is our job as human beings is to give and receive love. That is it and find your way to do it. My way is through these podcasts, interviews, my ways through these books, my social media content, when I work with my clients, funny stuff that I like to put out, we can show our love and creativity in so many ways. But if we have all these voices in our head, we will not be able to do the work that God wants us to do while we're here.

Kristen

It's so true. And then I think and I know we're out of time projection, like you stop projecting your stuff on other people. And in relationships. I see it all the time. I'm like, if you don't clear up, what's the unmet needs are all of the voices in your head so you can discern, you're going to project that they don't want you they don't like you. They think you're not enough. They think you're this that and the other I mean, because we haven't done the work of accepting ourselves. So it clears that up to not all the way because we have to watch projection always. So where can people get your book?

Vasavi

instead? Thank you so much for asking. Everyone can go to say it out loud book.com. Of course, my book is everywhere, Amazon target, Barnes and Noble all the places but if you go to say it out loud book.com You can order come back to that page, put in your order number and I have two great bonuses one is going to be a virtual, say it out loud Book Club, which we're going to be everyone's going to have a book in their hands at that point. So we're gonna do a one month book club, where every week we go through three chapters a week, there's full chapters. So we're gonna do three chapters a week Crash Course and say it out loud, we'll get to spend time together. And then instant access, you do get a 12 step audio bonus audio programme. So I recorded this when I was in recovery. I used to listen to meditations when I was need to re listen to this step four, I need to re listen to step six. So I was like, You know what I should create like a 12 step audio programme for people, they can listen to it anytime, whatever they're going through, you listen to my AUDIO BOOK programme, you're going to be able to talk to yourself through any situation, just listen to My voice and as I guide you. So that's really cool. You can listen to that anytime you have stuff come up, say it out loud. book.com.

Kristen

Awesome. Awesome. I loved our time together. Thank you for your vulnerability and authenticity and just being real. And my big thing for people is you got to connect to your emotions, you got to be with them. It is the essence of the work and really listening and discerning what is the real you and what voices are trying to show you tell you invite you into different spaces. So thank you so so much cannot wait for the book. Go get it. You say it out loud. And we're cheering you on. Thank you.

Kristen

Thank you so much for listening to the close the chapter podcast. My hope is that you took home some actionable steps, along with motivation, inspiration and hope for making sustainable change in your life. If you enjoyed this episode, click the subscribe button to be sure to get the updated episodes every week and share it with a friend or family member. For more information about how to get connected visit Kristen k r i s t e n d Boice BO ice.com. Thanks and have a great day.