Kristen
Welcome to the close the chapter podcast. I am Kristen Boice a licenced Marriage and Family Therapist with a private practice pathways to healing counselling. Through conversations, education, strategies and shared stories we will be closing the chapter on all the thoughts, feelings, people and circumstances that don't serve you anymore and open the door to possibilities and the real you. You won't want to miss an episode so be sure to subscribe

Kristen Boice
Welcome to this week's close the chapter podcast I am so grateful you are here with us today to talk about this very important topic on really how to use creativity to help in your healing journey is something we don't talk a lot about at least I haven't heard a lot of conversations about it. And I'm so excited for my guest today. We have developed a friendship going on several years now and I am just delighted and honoured. She's going to be part of this podcast today. Let me introduce you to her. She is a gem. She has a heart of gold and she has such warmth and compassion. That's my little bio on her. Reva Lombardi is a registered board certified Art Therapist art therapy certified supervisor and licenced mental health counsellor qualified supervisor practising in Fort Myers, Florida. And I just want to interject here that she did get with the eye of the hurricane and in and the fact that she's here with me today is speaks volumes about just her heart and she's been through a lot in the last and so have all the people in Fort Myers and I just want to honour the time we have together so I wanted to mention that as we go through our conversation today. She is the owner of Florida art therapy services where has her small team of therapists provide in person and technology facilitated individual and group art therapy and counselling services contracted art therapy groups at various community agencies supervision and continuing education programming for counsellors and art therapist. She has contributed to several academic texts on the topics of art therapy, clinical supervision, and as a frequent presenter and speaker at local and national professional conferences. She is the owner of creative clinicians corner LLC where she hosts and produce the podcast the creative psychotherapist and offers practice building resources and consultation services for creative art therapists with desires to build and scale their own private practice. As the host of the creative psychotherapist, she interviews successful creative therapists about the tools and strategies they use to grow their dream practices as well as how they hustled to create additional streams of income using the knowledge and creativity by developing products and services and enhance the art therapy practices. In her spare time she loves to play on in the ocean with her husband and their dog. Explore vast natural landscapes and get messy in the kitchen. I really want to try your cookie creating complex but healthy recipes. Welcome Raina to the podcast.

Reina
Thanks so much Kristen. I feel like that was a lot.

Kristen Boice
I know I always felt like that was the one reads my bio. I'm like oh my goodness. It's a lot it helps people get to know you. So welcome. I am so glad you're here. We were just sharing before we jumped on to hit record about what it's like there. Would you mind sharing just a little bit about how it sure you in the midst of hurricane Ian in the aftermath.

Reina
I feel really fortunate in that I still have a home that I can live in. We have some roof damage done and the water came right up to our front door like you could see when we were able to finally get to our house there's like two coconuts and a crock at the front door. The crock was an hour's I don't know where it came

Unknown Speaker
from. Was a shoe or Crocodoc Yes.

Reina
As a shoe although we do have Florida crocodiles here. That is a real thing. But no no, not a real crocodile but the shoe big shoes. It was definitely like a man's foot. So we were really fortunate but it's a month out and the debris is still everywhere like the county has said we're recording today's Halloween the county has said it's not safe for trick or treaters to go out and trick or treat because of the debris that still piled up on at the edge of everyone's yard. I was gone for two weeks. I was like oh please let me come home and like at least if the neighbourhood is cleaned up that will be a little bit less stressful to see but it's not looked pretty much the same, some stuff is gone, but not much. And they're saying that it's going to take a couple of years for things to to actually rebound. And there's a lot of conversation on the news regarding FEMA as rules about rebuilding and how some structures, there's concern that some structures received so much damage that they're saying a mandatory demolishing of it and then rebuild from there. I mean, other people, like their home was completely washed away, it doesn't exist anymore. It's definitely hard to describe what it's like and to continue to move day by day, it's like, okay, um, you know, things are kind of back to normal, like I have electricity again, my waters running again, those kinds of creature comforts are the same. But yet there's this real acknowledgement that it's not the same. There's a lot of people that are still living in the shelter. People are doubling up in homes while their places are being all the walls have to be pulled out, all the studs have to be pulled out to where the water level rose to people have lost their vehicles. It's just, it's a lot like Trina it is it's, I'm a Florida native. It's where I grew up, I grew up on the beach, and I've been through a lot of storms. But I've never seen anything as devastating as this. And I've never like been through anything as devastating as this. And we live in the evacuation zone and the first zone to get called because we're close to the beach. And close to the river, there's a big river that runs through that goes out to the Gulf. If the river starts in the centre of the state moves out to the Gulf. And we're close to that, too. I could walk there from my house. So like all the people that lived on really are close to the river, the river rose, and those homes were flooded out. And there's just so there's a lot going on.

Kristen Boice
And then you're sharing about E coli and the water safe.

Reina
Yeah, so like when you're reading the bio, and you're saying one of the things I love is the ocean and the beach, and you can't even go in it right now. Because there's flesh eating bacteria, that's killing people, people have died. And a lot of it is from all of the sewage and debris and all the yuck that's in there right now. And who knows how long that will take to recover. But they're issuing warnings saying don't get in the water because of it. So yeah, it's gonna be a while before we have access to our beaches again. And that for me, that's like a sacred place. I love to get up early and start my day walking on the beach at sunrise. I don't do it all the time. There's like certain times of year that the weather's just like the best and you get like just really dynamic skies. And so I love that getting there when it's still dark out. And like watching that transformation happen and walking on the beach. And it's also a place like I grew up in St. Petersburg, Florida and I grew up on the water, my parents had a house on the water. And whenever I was going through something that was distressing, or troubling, I would go sit out on the dock and sit on the water or I would walk to the beach because our house was walking distance to the beach. And I would walk to the beach and I would go out to the beach and be by the water. There's something about the water that just helps me. And I remember the day after I was like, I just want to go walk the beach right now. Like that's what I need. And then I was like, You can't walk the beach, you won't be able to walk the beach for a really long time. Because it's one in not there in certain parts but to just there's so much destruction even to get out there. I mean, there's so boats in the road, walking traffic, crazy stuff,

Kristen Boice
stuff you've never had to deal with and this is your safe place. This is your sacred place. This is the place where you go to reconnect. And you can't right now infiltrated every part really truly, of your community and of your space and of your just your surroundings.

Reina
I feel like I'm super fortunate. I do feel really grateful and fortunate. I feel like I had like a guardian angel kind of watching over me in comparison to the damages of some of my neighbor's homes. And of course my business is okay. My husband is a charter captain. and his boat is in one of two standing marinas that were not destroyed by the hurricane. All the other marinas around his were levelled. It was a brand new build a couple of years ago. So like the concrete on the walls of the Marina are like two feet thick, they like come out and pour them in, they have crane or rectum. So it was built to sustain and survive a cat five and it certainly did. So we're lucky that he has his boat like other people, like who knows their boat landed on other people's homes or like in the middle of the road are. So we're fortunate but at the same time, it's I think it's recognising it's okay to be bereft and it's okay to grieve everything that's happening. At the same time as feeling grateful for the safety that we had, that we were unharmed, our home was basically unharmed. Like I said, we have to have roofers come out and make some roof repair right now it has like tarps nailed up there to prevent water intrusion from coming in. But we're fairly lucky in comparison to other people I know that lost their business that lost their home, and just everything inside of it. Like all of your family heirlooms, like I've heard stories of like people there, the evacuation notice was so short, that they're like, I'll just grab a few things. And then they forgot really important things like their ashes of a loved one, for example, you know, things that you just don't consider to take with you in that moment. You're just in such a rush to like, get your basics, but family pictures and all those things that are really special to people people lost. Yeah, it's

Kristen Boice
devastating. And I think it's important to note that there's grief, even though you're grateful. I like how you said at the same time, you're still grieving. I mean, your husband can't do his business now because can't get the boat out for starters, because of the sailboat that thank you said in the middle of a war like the way to get out. And then the waters aren't safe right now. And people aren't vacationing in Fort Myers, which was part of his business. So there's loss there. Though, you have these other you're grateful, it's so important that I love how you're recognising and giving yourself permission to say I still have grief. And just to look around. And it looks like a warzone. It looks like not how it looked before.

Reina
It is it's really it's sad. And it definitely hurts to know that so many other people in the community are hurting. I'm like and people that we know and care about, you know that they're hurting, and they survived. But there's like all the same thing of like, they survived, but their homes are severely damaged, they can't live in them. Like all of those things. When you hear that from multiple people that you care about, you know, it's hard not to feel grief for that them too. I think that that is an important message for people because I've heard a lot of like clients since we you know, we started seeing clients again, you know, I feel guilty, right, but I don't think that we should feel guilty for the you know, because the wind didn't rip our roof off, but it ripped the neighbor's roof off, you know, like, it's still close, it was still extremely stressful. And it's a both a hand, right?

Kristen Boice
And your nervous system. That's what like the exhaustion because going around in what you see, and you take in the devastation, you're looking at it, you're hearing it, you're smelling it, even you said one way it's like poop. Fresh, like and then the poop, you know, the sewage truck trying to clean up the streets, and it gave me the thumbs up or whatever that we you're like, Yay, because your whole nervous system is inundated with it with the trauma of it.

Reina
That's so true, right? Every sensory or every all of your senses are activated and like even today, there's still like major helicopters, huge military helicopters, you know, flying around and a couple of weeks ago was like shaking the house and my husband went outside and looked up and there was like a military helicopter like towing like a semi truck load of things. I'm sure they were gonna go take it to one of the islands or something but the house was trembling, you know. So there are those sensory pieces of information that like something's not right here. This isn't usual. It's uncomfortable and stresses the dog out or animals have had it rough.

Kristen Boice
Yeah, cuz they pick up on all that they can sense they feel that especially if the house is shaking and there's just a lot. It's a good point like not only humans but pets taking in the trauma,

Reina
for sure. I know for me, like what helps me get through just sitting through the storm as like passed over us because it was a really long storm, right? Like it kind of started picking up Tuesday evening, we started getting tornado warnings. And it was the winds were whipping but Wednesday morning, it really started to come in the tide was really coming in. And, and it lasted into the night, Wednesday night. Um, it was a really long storm to sit through. But was art got me through it. I just sat and I sat and drew. And it allowed me to really centre myself and focus myself not to say that I wasn't feeling distressed, but it helped me to stay as centred as I could, in a lot of chaos.

Kristen Boice
share more about how you turn to art in the heart of chaos, and how that has been an anchor to your nervous system.

Reina
Yeah, I think the thing that drew me to art therapy in the first place was really using art as a way to process my life experience and what was going on around me that when I look back, I think, you know, like, even in high school, my best friend and I, we didn't write notes, like I mean, you know, now, kids just send text. But like, when we were growing up, we had like those handwritten notes, and you would fold them in all kinds of ways, right. But we would draw comics, we would draw comics about all of the things that were going on in high school and the characters in school and, or what was going on at home and our home lives, and we would exchange his drawings. So Art has always been kind of the way that I make sense of my experience. And there's times where I am not as actively involved. And then times where I'm more actively involved. But I think what it does, it allows us to process in a way that words alone can't, it can allow for things that maybe are unknown to us, or are kind of, you know, in our unconscious material, it can allow them to flow forward in a way that they become visible, and then we can work with them in a different way. But just the act of making art is a sensory experience. And that can be really grounding. If you think about different textured materials, you know, and how you apply that we're getting some sensory feedback when we're doing that. art making really is a you know, it taps into our neuro development, if you will, if you think about all children, no matter where they are, will gravitate towards making marks. Even if they don't have a paper and pencil, they're going to find a stick, they're going to find a rock, they're going to find something to make marks. And there's something about that process that just can be really grounding, connecting.

Kristen Boice
Anchoring, what came up for me as you were sharing and like, what about those folks that have art shame? Or art trauma where they might have been told, yeah, you don't? You're not good at art, or you're not doing it right. Or that's ugly, or I'm making this up. But people that have art shame that feel like I'm not creative?

Reina
Oh, yeah. So like that. You're making it up. But those are all things people say, Right? Right. I haven't made art since I was in fifth grade because I couldn't draw. I couldn't, you know, execute, I couldn't make it look like what it looks like in real life. And as art therapists, you know, one of the things that we always tell our clients is this is not about the product, it's about the process. So if we can put that off to this side here, the focus is not to create something that's going to look pleasing or is going to be sold or hanging in a museum or anything like that. It is art for the sake of your ego art for the sake of your well being and It's about the process of doing rather than, you know the outcome of it, the outcome is the process, if we're using it as a way to Pope Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that we won't experience pleasure from the end product, we may, in fact, really appreciate what we created. But that shouldn't be the focus here. When we're creating as a healing practice.

Kristen Boice
Where does someone begin? It's like, I have no idea like, I can't I only draw stick figures. And I don't I don't even know where to begin to use art. On my healing journey. Where does someone start?

Reina
So I think that it's important, when we feel anxiety about making art that makes it unapproachable to us. So start with something that is small, something that provides a container. For me, I would go with something that has a little more control. And that means something that's going to be more 2d material, maybe some oil pastels, or chalk pastels, something like that, where you have the ability to get some expressive qualities, but it's also still very grounding at versus if you're using, say, water paint, or acrylic paint or something that's more fluid and harder to control. And I would probably start by drawing a circle a small circle on a piece of paper, and just filling in the circle with colour. So just allowing yourself to look at the materials and say, Okay, what colour is really speaking to me about where I'm at right now? What's the feeling that I have right now? What's the sensation that I have right now? And if that feeling or sensation had a texture, what would that texture be? If it had a line quality? What would that line quality be? If it had an intensity of that range of colour? What would that be? Right? Because we can go from really light, kind of sketchy quality blue to a really dark, rich, thick, heavy, blue, right. And both of those things are going to capture a different felt sense of our experience. So just starting with the circle, the oil pastels, and the chalk pastels blend really nicely. And just focus on filling it with colour and not trying to render something that looks like a real life object. And allowing oneself to do that and to just be playful with the materials, not take it too seriously. That can be a good place to begin. And then once you start playing, then you feel a little more open to it if Oh, okay, like, well, maybe I'll try this now. Maybe I'll try that. Now. I do some groups with adults in the community, adults in substance abuse work. And most of them are, I would say, probably 75% are like hesitant to create and hesitant, like, what do you want me to do? This seems ridiculous. You know, they're really put off by it. But once they start the process, not all of them, but a large majority of them, once they start the process. And they do it a couple times, then they get into it and say wow, you know, like, I actually got a lot more out of this than I thought I was going to get out of it, I realised I'm able to do more than what I thought I was able to do or more than I remembered that I was able to do from that last experience of creating whenever that happened to be for them, which is exciting. And I think if people want to use art as a way of healing and as a way of understanding and developing a relationship with themselves, the most important thing to do is to one not judge let go of the judge or notice and say oh, the judges Psaki, again, we're not listening to the judge right now. We're just exploring and playing and having fun. We're giving ourselves permission to explore and play and we're quieting that voice of the judge. And at the end, we're not evaluating the end product, right? If we evaluate, we go back to the voice of the judge. And that's not what we're here to do. We're here to say, what do you have to teach me? What can I learn from This, right if if that image that I just created had a voice, what would it tell me? What else does it need? What does it want? We can be playful in the questions that we asked to continue to enhance what we created or even respond in writing. Sometimes I'll respond and do create, but then I'll also write alongside of it in response to what I've created and helps me go a little deeper.

Kristen Boice
When you write alongside of it. Is it in a notebook? Is it on the art itself? Like, where do you do that?

Reina
Either, or I have a sketchbook. And so I'll often do a little bit of art journaling and a little bit of writing. And it might be on the same piece of paper, or it might be on a different piece of paper, or sometimes I'll include words of affirmation and text in the artwork itself. In addition to whatever I happen to be expressing that day, there's no right or wrong to any of it. That's the other piece, right? And we give ourselves permission to play and explore. We give our self permission to do whatever it is that we feel called to do. In that moment. I like to allow the materials to select themselves. So like, what am I feeling most drawn to? What colour? Am I feeling most drawn to? What pen or marker or mark making tool? Am I feeling most drawn to? Where in the paper? Am I feeling drawn to make marks and kind of allow it to evolve in that way?

Kristen Boice
When you say this, have you ever read the book the.by? Peter Reynolds? No, it's a children's book, okay, but it's a book. It really is for adults too. But it's about art. It's about just make your mark, like just put a.on the page and just make your mark but the whole thing is about overcoming the fear of criticism and judgement that lives inside of us, but really is externalised, you know, we got it young, so to be playful and non judgmental? How do you get to that point where you're not judgmental, and you are accessing more playful parts? Because many people feel like they're not playful at all, in their inner critic runs the show? Yes.

Reina
I can relate to that. I think it's practice like anything else, right? It's recognising that that part is there. And that part wants to keep us in a safe and comfortable place, and not allow us that space to have fun, that space to explore. We think about play as a neurodevelopmental experience, the whole reason we're playing is to learn to practice to try new things to rehearse, right? We're developing our understanding of the world, but we stop doing that at a certain point. And because of, you know, societal norms, you're too old to play, you know, you gotta be more serious and things like that. And then that holds us back from growing in ways that are, that might open greater possibilities for joy for us, I think in adulthood. And so just really recognising, okay, there's the inner critic, there's the voice of the inner critic, again, that voice is separate from mine. And I can continue to make marks Whatever it looks like here, without, you know, becoming the prey of the inner critic or the judge, you know, I can allow myself because I'm by myself, I'm not sharing it with anybody else. Nobody has to see it. If I get to the end, and I'm really frustrated with it, and I really, really don't like it. That's just more information about how I could approach things differently afterwards. And at that time, if you don't like it, rip it out of your sketchbook or tear it up into shreds, crumple it up, get rid of it, you don't have to keep it, but just allowing yourself that permission to try, I think is the important part. And then the more you do that, the more comfortable you become. And the better you're able to recognise when that that voice of judgement is showing up. And it's probably if it's showing up when you're going to make a little piece of art by yourself. Well, you can guarantee it's showing up in other parts of your life that have like more weight to them. Yes,

Kristen Boice
it's pervasive in a lot of ways. I was thinking about trauma and creativity in accessing the creative flow when you're in a survival state, like you're just trying to survive.

Reina
So in that sense, I think that's where using materials that are Are two dimensional. They're hard with crayons, whether that's markers, and just scribbling, just allowing yourself to scribble and transmute the energy that is stirring around within out onto the paper can be really helpful and calming. And sometimes you might not even have paper around a few years ago, my husband and I were driving in the mountains in North Carolina, and we got hit with this torrential downpour. It was like white outs and you know, you're on these like turns and stuff. And I was like, I'm so bad. I'm not driving, but I was freaking out. But I have like a phone with like a stylus. So I just opened up my drawing app on my phone. And I just sat there and I scribbled as we like, drove through the mountains with the rain pouring down. And that helped me to let out what was in my nervous system without distressing him as the truck driver. Because you know how that can be when you're in the car. And it's like,

Kristen Boice
grasping the side of the boat. You're like grabbing the side of the handle on the car or the OSHA, and you're doing, you're trying to hit your brake like in there. Yeah. Trying to calm your nervous system in the scribbling This is very interesting. I've never done that before. Well, you might try

Reina
it. Yeah, there's a lot of art therapy techniques that begin with the scribble and depending upon your framework, or you studied and things there's different ways of using the scribble in in really helpful ways. It's really fun to do joint scribble drawings, which came out of Winnicott scribble game, Donald Winnicott is famous psychologist, psychiatrist,

Kristen Boice
no attachment, really attachment very kind of she was the really one of the pioneers in the attachment space,

Reina
yeah, object relations, so that when a caught scribble game, where you kind of scribbled together, and then you find objects in the scribble and pull them out piano, then there's different ways to use it. But but the scribbling in general, when when you're really distressed can be helpful if you can use both hands, and scribble with both hands, and you're getting that cross axis, the bilateral stimulation. So right when we talk about like different trauma protocols like EMDR, like that's what they're really employing, well, we can be doing that same thing, but through the art and scribbling on both sides and crossing the midline. And then that can be really helpful way of kind of anchoring.

Kristen Boice
I was powerful on to try it. And what came up for me as you're seeing scribbling, I'm like, Oh, the inner critic then can not have to judge we're just scribbling or scribbling to regulate the nervous system, I'm just scribbling so it feels a little more free. I think, at least when you're reading it, it feels like that for somebody that might be like, I don't have any creative ability, or whatever negative belief they have about themselves around art.

Reina
Sometimes, like, I'll do an intervention where I'll put on music that has no words to it. And then I'll set out water colours and watercolour paper, and I listen to the music. And then based on what I hear from the music, I will, you know, choose different colours and just fill the page but not again, it's kind of like scribbling I'm just putting the water colour spreading it around watching the water and the colours mix in response to the music and just moving along. And that too can be really calming and relaxing, as well.

Kristen Boice
It was close your eyes when you're talking about listening to the music, you had your eyes closed. And I was like, I wonder if you're connecting to the what just the sensation in your body the emotions or is there any? Are you just letting it be as whatever comes through.

Reina
I think in that moment, I was really imagining what it does for me in my body and how much calmer I feel in those moments when I'm doing that kind of activity. But I do encourage people like if I'm, you know, teaching an intervention to somebody, I do encourage them to check in with their body and notice, notice difference. Let's do a body scan before let's do a body scan after what do you notice that's different? How are you feeling in your body now versus before? So that they can really have that tangible? Like, oh, yeah, that like I do feel, you know, calmer. I do feel more relaxed or at ease in my body now than before we started.

Kristen Boice
What are some of the top interventions that you utilise or recommend? For the healing journey, beyond the shared, are there other ones that come to mind that say, You know what, this is a really helpful one or I know it depends on the client and what they're presenting and coming in with just is there any other ones that came through? Just as with the question,

Reina
such a difficult that is a really Chow, it's such a big question, right? It's a big question to answer. And there's so there's so many ways that we can use the creative process to help ourselves, I think, starting a practice of if you do a little bit of art journaling every day. So art journaling is similar to like writing journaling, you might even do a little bit of both, I do a little bit of both. But just having that practice where you're like dating it, it's all in a book you create whatever it is that you create, but then you have that ability to look back and can see where you were what was going on in that moment. And it gives you like a reference point, and you can kind of see your growth over time. I think that's really helpful. One of the things that I love to do is, for example, I'll create an image, sometimes it's a portrait, sometimes it's not, but I'll create an image. And then the other tasks that I'll do is to dialogue with the image. So if there is a person in that image, what does that person have to say? What do they have to teach me? What do they need from me? What do they want from me that I'm willing to give or unwilling to give, but I'm also going to be responding in my writing to what they're saying, right? And so we start to have a dialogue, a back and forth conversation. A lot of times people say this is bizarre, this is weird. This is like really strange. Just go with it. Yes, you're talking to yourself, but just go with it. Because it's going to bring up information for you that you wouldn't uncover without going through that process. That that particular technique, I think, is super powerful. And it's something that we all have access to, that we can all can do anywhere. And you know, if you have a little journal at home, it's easy enough to do I'll usually create a picture and then write on the next page. I know you had asked about the writing stuff earlier. But even if you're a digital person, you'd prefer to create digital stuff. You can do it that way too. You might even Yeah, so many options, right? And if it's not a person, it's just a colour on the page. What does that colour have to say? What is that colour? Can you speak from it from an im perspective?

Kristen Boice
Yeah, this is so beautiful. I was going back to thinking about you in the hurricane. In the drawing while you were hearing the sounds, you know, not sure what was going to happen next and the length of time you were doing that. And you got your sketchbook you were drawing? And I'm curious, can you walk us through the process of real application for that in the midst of real anxiety and certainty.

Reina
So I definitely, even though the book is a container, I needed another container. So I started with the circle. I started with a circle in the centre of the page. And, you know, let it go from there. I was like, I don't know what I'm going to draw. And I was like, Well, I'm just going to look at my hand and I'm going to, I'm going to do a drawing of my hand. And I'm so I just sat there and drew my hand, it gave me something to focus on. And then it started to evolve from there. This first image that came up was it ended up being that it's all out of my hands. There's nothing I can do. I'm just letting I'm letting go. So like the drawing for me, even though I didn't know what it was going to be from the beginning ended up being a really powerful message for me about surrender, and, you know, letting it go, I have no control over what happens.

Kristen Boice
Did you have that realisation while you were in process? Or was it after, tell me about how you recognised what you were letting go and surrender was for you?

Reina
At first, I didn't know that that was what it was going to happen. But about halfway in, you know, stuff started to emerge in the picture. That was like, I'm letting it go. You know, I'm just letting it go. And then I started to realise like yeah, I am letting I'm letting it go. I'm making in my mind I'm making peace with Okay, If the waters come up and take my home, they that's what happens. And there's nothing I can do about it, and it'll be okay. And life will go on. And I'll figure it out. But it came through that message of this open hand on the circle and just see other like little colours and things that were in the Image via came through kind of halfway through, it was like a synthesis of processing.

Kristen Boice
And you are processing in real time, this is the beauty of doing this practice is you're actually not suppressing, repressing, numbing, pushing down, pushing away moving away, you are leaning in towards the present moment that you are in. And is that a beauty of art therapy is it's inviting you into the present moment, if you will, at least for this experience, it was inviting you into the present moment, to be with it in a mindful way. And to process what's happening instead of moving away from it.

Reina
That's interesting, right? And in the way I used it, sure, it was definitely very present moment. And there are techniques that really allow you to be in the present moment. But oftentimes in therapy, we're processing the past, right? It's already happened. But we are bringing the awareness of what's happening within in the moment as we process the past. So what's happening right now for that person? How are they feeling right now? Which could be similar to the past? Or it could be different ends on the situation? Yeah, I think it, it allows us to bring out what's in here, put it out in a tangible way of like, if I were to just sit there and say, like, Oh, I'm surrendering. I don't know, if it would be as powerful without the image. But you know, for some people, some people think in images, some people don't, and they don't reconnect with the image, they might connect better with sound, and music, right. And they might think, very musically. So we all have to understand our mode of expression, what best suits us. And if we can find that, that can be a really helpful way of releasing and processing out our different lived experiences.

Kristen Boice
I love how you put that and the end result and and our wrapping up because this is such a good conversation was you felt like you could handle whatever the end result of that process for you that practice is like, Okay, I'll be okay, I can handle it. You didn't use those exact words, but it was a sense of, I'll be okay. That's the beauty of really whatever process you decide works for you is so you can know the resources are within you to tolerate and know like you could do it because a lot of times we think I can't handle this, I can't handle this because it feels so overwhelming. And the truth is, you've been through a lot of hard things. And we are we do have more capability to handle things that we think we can't handle, but to know it and believe it is. That's the surrender and let go. So that was a beautiful way to wrap up our conversation. Is there anything else we did not cover that you feel like was important to mention,

Reina
I think it's important that you give yourself time, if you're going to, if you're going to take on this type of practice, give yourself time, you know, you might not have that rapid insight. I've been doing this a long time. So I'm, I think oriented to that. Because I've been I've been an art therapist for a really long time. And then even before I was an art therapist, I used art for a really long time. So that's, you know, a language I'm intimate with. So if it's something that you're not familiar with, or you enjoy, but you enjoyed when you were younger, but thought it's kind of silly for me to do it now. Give yourself time to become reacquainted to learn that language again, to go through an evolution to see how you express yourself in ways that are meaningful to you. Because the way I do it may not resonate for another person, right? They might have their own process about it. I've seen somebody that they actually spread out paper on the floor, and they like use their whole body to create, which is like mind blowing, but that that's what that person found was the best way for them to express what needed to be expressed. So give yourself that ability to grow. And through the practice, right? A practice is something that I'm going to do frequently and consistently over time, so that I can develop and hone my skill set there. So if you're going to use the creative process as a way of understanding yourself, nurturing yourself healing yourself, I think it's an enduring process. It's not, I'm going to sit down today, I'm going to do one drawing, and that's going to be helpful for me. Yes,

Kristen Boice
I think that's a wonderful way to put it is it's a practice. So don't give up. Try out different things to see what really resonates for you, and what feels centering to you. And to you, where can people find you if they want to know more information?

Reina
Sure. So they can find me at my practice website, which is Florida art therapy services.com. Or they can find me at my consultation website, which is creative clinicians corner.com. And that's where the practice building resources and things are. But either way, if they wanted to reach out via email, there's ways to send a message the website on both of those platforms. And I'd be happy to talk with folks if they want to know more or be directed to different resources that could be helpful.

Kristen Boice
Thank you so much. Reena, what is that? Do you have a book or suggested book that you like to share with clients to wrap us up?

Reina
There's definitely some cool stuff out there, I'll throw out there. My friend and fellow Art Therapist, her name is Leah Guzman. And she wrote, she wrote a book and she has an Oracle deck that goes with the book, which I introduced you to her Oracle deck, which is just beautiful. And her book is I think it's the art of healing and manifesting, I don't have it like at, at the ready. But what's great is that like if you use her cards, you can pull a card and then you can look for the corresponding material in the book. And she gives different prompts for different art experientially to do along with it. And I love it. I really enjoy using that in my own practice, sometimes I'll use her work and sometimes I'll, you know, do things on my own. But that's a good one.

Kristen Boice
Yeah, I loved her cards. They're gorgeous, and very powerful. So thank you for sharing that. And thank you for your heart and your vulnerability today. I am so grateful you made the time to be on the show. And I'm grateful for you and the work you're doing in the world. So thank you so much. Reena,

Reina
thank you so much for this opportunity. And I'm glad to be here and have this conversation. And so much, Kristen.

Kristen
Thank you thank you so much for listening to the close the chapter podcast. My hope is that you took home some actionable steps, along with motivation, inspiration and hope for making sustainable change in your life. If you enjoyed this episode, click the subscribe button to be sure to get the updated episodes every week and share with a friend or a family member. And for more information about how to get connected visit Kristen k r i s t e n d Boice boice.com. Thanks and have a great day.