Kristen
Welcome to the close the chapter podcast. I am Kristen Boice a licenced Marriage and Family Therapist with a private practice pathways to healing counselling. Through conversations, education, strategies and shared stories. We will be closing the chapter on all the thoughts, feelings, people and circumstances that don't serve you anymore. And open that door to possibilities and the real you. You won't want to miss an episode so be sure to subscribe

Kristen
Welcome to this week's close the chapter podcast I am so happy you're here with me. And there's no coincidences. I really believe that like you are here for a reason. This topic might have resonated with you, if you've gone through a breakup, a divorce, maybe you're a child a divorce, or you're going through one yourself or you're supporting a friend or a family member. This is going to be a really important episode as we're going to dive into how to heal kind of the do's and don'ts of what to do maybe what not to do, how to deal with the shame, the guilt and the fear that comes up as a result of divorce. So without further ado, let me introduce you to my wonderful guests who I'm thrilled as joining me today. Alicia Robertson is an author, speaker and trained life and divorce coach who helps recently separated women through her business lemonade life. She knows exactly how devastating it is to hear the words I want to divorce. Her mission is to change the narrative around divorce, and provide support and guidance with ultimate goal of helping as many women as possible. Welcome to the close the chapter podcast.

Alicia
Thank you, Kristen, I'm so thrilled to be here. I'm one of those people that gets really excited to talk about divorce and transition and change in grief,

Kristen
Which is very rare, because when you're in the middle of it, you think this is permanently how I'm gonna feel. Do you hear that a lot from women that you support?

Alicia
Yeah. And I know that because I was there. When I went through my own period of grief, it felt entirely impossible, and dark, and filled with shame and stigma isolating filled with depression, I had fears and thoughts of either ending my life or running as far away from my reality as possible. The thought of facing any of the things that I had to face through this massive change was incredibly daunting.

Kristen
So tell us a little bit about your story, how you got to be helped coach women through separation and divorce. So share a little bit about your journey.

Kristen
Thank you for asking that. Because really, quite simply, I found my experience through separation and divorce, a place that wasn't supported. I didn't know where to turn, I Googled, and there was nothing. And at the time, I wasn't on social media. And it's such a it's so private, it's not something you can share, especially in the beginning. So I wasn't about to go and put anything into the world. I mean, my children didn't know, my family didn't know I was navigating this completely on my own. And so I just wanted to support women to have a safe place to have less isolation and a positive experience through it. The resources that were available to me were very much in filled with stigma, the narratives of the drama, the gossip, the venting, the other women are the other people, there were so many narratives that were negative. And I am just such a big believer of surrounding yourself with the types of people and humans and experiences that you aspire to be like, and I couldn't find any of those. And so I really went on this journey to find them first for myself, and then to be able to share them with this beautiful community. And so really, for me, my story is probably not unlike so many women in particular, I was doing all the right things seeking stability, safety, security, I was the good daughter, and the good community leader, the good student, I always made the right decisions. I always did the selfless thing. And in doing so I started living to other people's values, and according to other people's hopes and aspirations and measures of what success looked like thinking that at some point, that light at the end of the tunnel, I would finally have my dreams realised or that by would finally arrive to whatever it was that I was seeking. And so that was all fine and well, and you can carry on that way. And then I got married. And then that was another label entitled to be perfect as a wife and a young wife at that. And then we had baby number one, and they went through postpartum anxiety and I don't think ever really fully recovered from that. To be honest, that was really the first time in experience that I felt so fearful and out of control and hopeless and unsupported. But I was still no no I got this I can do this. I was still pushing through because there's so much stigma even in those experience.

Unknown Speaker
It says, right. And so then baby number two, a growing business, all of these things just further becoming depleted, depleted and depleted. And then finally, our little our baby number two was born. And I knew something was wrong, something was off, like deeply rooted in my marriage. And I remember going into our home gym, and I asked my now former partner, you know, should I be worried about our marriage? He said, I don't know. And in that moment, though, I was reeling in all the desperate things that came up. And sadly, what came up first was my fear of failure, betrayal, being discarded, not being enough, not being worthy, despite how hard I had tried to control and to achieve and to have this life, and then at the same time, feeling wildly liberated, all of a sudden, the masks could come down, the perfectionism could sit, and though I think, understood logically, just how daunting of an experience this was going to be that this was my journey to finally find who I am and what I want and what matters to me so that I could show up better first for myself, and then for my family.

Kristen
What are you noticing right now that you just took a deep breath,

Alicia
take a deep breath, because I still go back to that moment, really where it's like, I describe it as the person who you shared so much with now looks like a stranger before your eyes, like a darkness has overtaken them. Your brain is reeling for answers. As you're dropped into denial, and sadness, and bargaining. All these things happen. And it's such an intense feeling. And then just having the floor dropped out from under you, and you think when you hit the floor, you're going to get some type of relief, like it's over. That's it, because all I had to do was hit the floor, and realising that you have to get up and face this thing. And so I do I go back there, as I talk about it, because it is absolutely the darkest, brightest hour of my life.

Kristen
It's an awakening. So how long were you married? Let's walk through like How long were you married? How long did you date? How old were you when you got married?

Alicia
Yeah, so I was so I was in my 20s. finishing university. When I met my partner, we moved in together quickly. I was like, I don't even know three months or something. All the unhealthy partnership things right? No, it's butterflies. He's my soulmate, and Fast and Furious into that. And on top of that, we started working together, he had already a business that was established, and I joined his company. So now in our early 20s, we were dealing with a very new and growing business and all the challenges there. We were living together, newly living together, I was finishing school, and then we were five years together, living like that. And then we got married, and we were married for 10 years. So we had a good run was a great run. We did so many things we really connected on our friendship and our interests. And intimacy was always number three. As we started to go through these things, that was the one that dropped off first. But again, I rationalise these things, right? Maybe it's libido, maybe it's just this time of life. Everybody sort of tells you, oh, you're a young family, don't worry about it, you'll pop out in the next five or 10 years. And that's okay. And you're young, and you're growing a business. And this is how you're supposed to feel okay. All right. So I kept justifying and rationalising for what I knew deep down was not where I wanted to be in a partnership, but I was committed. And marriage in my belief system, and for everything that was modelled to me was till death do you part, and that you find a way to navigate the seasons, the tough seasons. And regardless if there's happiness or not, I'm the first person in my entire family and in my world, who's gone through separation divorce, so that wasn't ever something that was available to me. So

Kristen
when you're the first person, oftentimes, there's so much shame, and like you want to do whatever it takes to make it work. Because the shame and the fear is so big. How did you navigate that?

Alicia
It's an interesting thing, because when you said that, I remember the shame and the fears as I was silently in limbo, going through separation, right, this stage where a couple is operating behind the scenes, the outside world is still moving forward, and you're still functioning in the world. And I was I was a capable, resilient, resourceful, strong, independent woman who felt great majority of the time and had this incredibly isolating, grief filled, unfamiliar, unknown place that I was navigating in my partnership. And I remember those feelings being at the forefront of my mind in that I would no longer have the status of being a married woman, I couldn't even identify with the word separation and divorce. I don't even think I maybe used the word divorce for maybe a year. And I didn't know how to share the news, like the dirty little secret. And I didn't know how people would receive it. And where I would go, where I would go and where I would find my people. And the reason I say that is because despite the fact that that's all the things I thought, when I finally shared my news to my nearest and dearest and my closest, they were entirely the most supportive, loving humans, and part because of how I chose to share the news, and that I was strategic, and how I delivered the information and asked them for what our family needed going through this time, which was really helpful to them. But also, because I think sometimes we just expect that those that love us the most are going to be so critical of us. But in actual fact, that's our own demons. That was my own. I didn't accept myself, and I wasn't worthy. And my self worth was low. And my knowing of what I wanted in life was low, and my courage was low. This is all me.

Kristen
There's so many questions here. When did you go to therapy? When did you decide, You know what I need to go to therapy to help navigate this?

Alicia
Yes. So first, I knew I needed to be in therapy years before I was afraid to go to therapy, because I knew if I opened Pandora's Box fully and completely, my marriage will be over. So I made a conscious choice not to go there. Well, that's the thing. If you decide not to go, whether you go there or not, if something is not meant to be, or is not going to be able to withstand whatever coming up in life, it's going to end up there. Eventually, I believe that was my journey. And then when I knew with the story that I just explained to you, I reached out to my most confidential human in the world. And I sat across the table and I shared my truth with her expecting her to again, don't worry about it, it's okay. Well, she cried. And she said, You need to make a call to this person. And I will check back with you tomorrow. That's a great friend. It's a great friend. And so I made the call, and I made the appointment. And so it was very early on, I was well supported. And I have to say before that, I'm just thinking back, I did first reach out to my doctor. And I went in, I couldn't because I didn't identify as someone who really wasn't unwell, all the shame and stigma, even that's associated with mental wellness, in terms of postpartum anxiety, Postpartum Depression, depression, anxiety, all of these things, I didn't know how to even observe that I was that person who is needing that help, let alone, not even identifying that my marriage could be over. And I need to talk to someone about separation and divorce was like my whole world imploded. And so even in my doctor's office, I didn't speak full truth, because I couldn't use these words, yet. They weren't available to me. So of course, she gave me some resources. And those resources were local, and I'm in a smaller community, and I was so afraid that it wouldn't be in confidence. And so the therapist that I chose actually was in another city. So there's so many things to unpack as you're walking this journey for the first time yourself. And so it's really hard to be an advocate for yourself during that time. And to this day, I believe there's only there's three people who know the extent of my entire story and my full truth, and that is my therapist, and that is to confidence that I have.

Kristen
Yeah, I mean, it's powerful. Because at the beginning, you're I hear this a lot from clients, like they're afraid. Like you said, I was afraid to go there because I knew to use your words, your whole marriage would implode like you had a knowing that this would unravel kind of this what felt like just normalcy. But you didn't use that word, but I'm right, just your your everyday life. You don't want to disrupt that I can imagine on some level, it felt scary to do that. So when you go back and you think about a lot of people, one don't know how to tell their children. I don't know how your old your children were. So let's explore that. And then to you said, how you went about telling people was very important and strategic. So let's go through number one, like how did you tell your kids how old were they?

Alicia
Yes. So when we started into this journey of separation, my little guy was six weeks old. And that's where I say I was really in the throes of postpartum anxiety. And my daughter was four and a half and then a year and a half later, we went public so our little guy was just over a year and daughter five and a half so young, very young. And so the first I remember it, they're so smart. Right? So and I we prepared for weeks, weeks, maybe months, it felt like a coming together with what this message was going to be. So because it wasn't my decision, okay, in the beginning, and because of all of my associations around the stigma, and all the things that I mentioned, I really wanted to be the victim and the murderer and I really want to Did the message of course to be, this has nothing to do with me taking personal accountability and responsibility for something that I also had so much shame and stigma around was the unthinkable. So that was my first work was really unpacking the fact that however you've arrived here, it's not what has brought you here. It's about all of the other things, and that I have an accountability and a responsibility to who I am in this process. And so I really started to with compassion, receive both of us and both of our needs. And both of our journeys. And I actually really started to understand that, though not my decision, the incredible courage it was taking, for my partner to speak this kind of real, raw, vulnerable truth, and to do so with the integrity he had. So first and sharing it with the kids was to have to remember we said, So the message is right, what are the messages that matter? And again, this is age and stage appropriate. And I would really recommend working with a professional to work on that based on the family dynamics. And so mine were young, so it was mummy and daddy are going to be working on becoming friends. And mummy and daddy will always be your mommy and daddy. And we love you very much. And so no matter what came up, or what this would be the message that we would always go back to, and that it was okay, if we didn't have all the answers to be able to say that's a great question. Mummy is going to think about that and come back to with some information, or who knows kids say the darndest things? That's a great question. Mommy would love to talk to you about that when it is appropriate in the future, because it might not be agent stage appropriate. And this is not for them to know, at this point. And so I remember with my daughter, I said, so we said all of these things. And of course, we just kind of took her away from a show because if she was in the TV room, because we'd said because so nothing's gonna change. This is how we sort of wrapped it up. We're never knew of delivering this information, and we're trying to justify, and you'll we're feeling awkward, because she's not really reacting to it, and she will nothing's gonna change, then why are you changing anything? Right? Okay, yes, everything's about to change. So they're just back, let me take that back. Okay. All right, this will just, we're gonna unpack that you're right, everything is about to change. And so then it was, hey, what we can commit to you is that we will all work on this together with transparency and conclusion, we will all work on this together. And we will create a safe place to be able to talk about the feelings and what matters most to all of us as we start to navigate all these firsts in this these milestones. So that was really the starting point. And then from there with our family, again, it really doesn't matter who, what, when, where, why it came to people just need to know what the decision is, and what they need from you. How do we move forward? Because so many times when you share this information, they also are going into their own grief, right? And denial, am I going to lose a friend, right? It's massive change for them, will I ever be able to see this other person will I not be able to see my grandchildren as regularly like, all the things are coming up with them, plus their own feelings of shame and stigma and fear towards the end of a partnership. So and I remember being this person receiving the news of divorce from friends that had gone through it. And so in that moment, it was to deliver a message that had integrity, to honour both of our perspectives, and to ask for what we needed. And our message was, quite simply, we have decided to uncouple and we are going to focus on our journey together as CO parents, putting our family and children first. And what we need from you is your positive, responsive, nurturing supportive our family during this time as we work through change. And that's it. Because what I know now, first of all, these are human beings that truly care about you, they're going to receive you with every ounce of support and wellness and healing. And if they're not humans that serve your journey, they will exit out right then in there.

Kristen
When I work with clients in this I'm coming from a different I bring I'm the child of divorce into the mix. And so I think this is so important to do your own work along the way, because things get stirred up that you would never expect to get stirred up and I wouldn't change my journey for anything. So I thought it's important as you're sharing what you've learned and how you've navigated this kind of some do's and don'ts. So growing up in my house just to be transparent. My mom was the one that wanted the divorce. However, we were in our 30s we really thought based on how my mom had portrayed my dad that my dad wanted the divorce. We were shocked were like just the her behaviour indicated that she was the victim and didn't end up that was not true. That was not the case. And she had some unearthing to do with her own previous abandonment issues that got kind of tapped into. And so one of the things that I think I learned of what I don't want to do my kids and my mom was because of her positives too. So with this was one of the pieces to Now pull us in to the dynamic between the two. And I know it's so hard at the beginning, especially when you're uncoupling. You're trying to figure out where to live, you're navigating the divorce with attorneys, you're trying to still be mom and dad to the kids or parent in and of itself. It's a lot. There's a lot there. And so in high in moments of stress, I mean, she would just not function at her best understandable, but it continued throughout most of our life. It wasn't a period of time. So what are some of the do's and don'ts that you help navigate people going through this? How do you help them navigate all the emotions in the grief, and they didn't think when they got married, they would end up in divorce, and they'd have kids in the mix of it.

Alicia
And the larger percentages of those people who are getting a divorce is that start or something marriages in their 20s, without kids, and then the empty nesters that are with adult children. And so there's fewer of us that are in my bracket, which is that 35 to 55, with young children, where if you think that you're single parenting in your partnership, and that you're the primary caregiver, when you're officially on your own, it is a double down next level. And so the thing is, is that I always first and foremost is your own healing, write your own journey. We know as parents, if read about parenting, so much of what comes up for us is either from a place of just total exhaustion and or is our own wounds that are activating us through whatever our children are doing. And so and the other thing I think through that I've had to unpack to through separation and divorce, there's a lot of guilt, right, so now my children are worse off, or this is impacting them so much, because we've added this layer to their life. So you can start to overcompensate in so many ways, when in fact, I actually think the greater gift is to show them a sense of resilience and communication skills, and personal advocacy and starting to model that self worth that healing, that working through whatever is activating you and assigning some healthy value to it, those coping strategies that we can help to give our kids so I just really no. And sometimes, you know, people will say, Well, we put the kids first when I say we put the kids first it means we put mom and dad first or parent first. Because we know a healthy parent does better in the home. And if the home is doing better, the community's doing better. And so I really, really believe that some of this is mindset stuff to be able to reduce those negative stigmas and those negatives, like broken home, that the children have less, and so on. And to start to understand really what is what are the positive things about this experience? What are the values that our family wants to live by? What are the priorities that matter most to our children? And how do we get there in our own homes, each house is going to do it differently, and to have some compassion and forgiveness for the other person and how they choose to parent in their home. None of us are perfect. And our judgments and our opinions really only served to hurt. So how can we stay focused on the goals right? On the priorities that matter on the values that matter on what matters to the children, and stay there stick to facts, the emotional stuff is where we unpack with professionals.

Kristen
And here's the other piece, I think that can be hard. And you tell me what you think, just with working with clients, especially when there's now another person entering the cup like so for example, if your husband starts dating someone else, you start dating someone else, this feeling of being displaced or replaced by somebody else, that fear is big, not everybody, but a lot of people, my kids are going to love them more, or they're going to be more attached to that person. They're going to replace me that comes with a lot of fear. My mom got sucked up into that fear, and never was able to kind of get a handle on that. Because it felt to like a wave that took over her and felt real. She would make up stories that weren't real. She's like, she's Martha Stewart over there. And I'm like, she's not she's just cooking a meal. Like she's not my mob. But I couldn't convince her otherwise. I mean, she literally was so afraid of being displaced. Talk to me about how you help people through that.

Alicia
I love that because I don't think you're human or a mom going through this experience and not have those fears. And I had all of those fears. And this is where I love this part actually. Because so when I was out in the world, I made a commitment to myself, I would only surround myself with those people who could share positive experiences with me so that I could learn from them and put it into practice in my own life. So at the very season where I was dealing with this thing, he's moved on. All the things that I've worked so hard for another woman is going to benefit from that's my family and my dreams and my fantasy of what's going to be and she's going to be involved in it and And I'm going to be forgotten and replaced, and my children are going to like her more anyways. And so first part was, Don't ever forget my girlfriend, she had gone through this experience. And first of all, she said, You are mother effing mom, first of all your mom, you are mom, nobody can take that away from you. And it's up to you to decide just because you have the title mom, by the way, doesn't mean you're an effective caregiver or doing the things that the children love. So that's your job to work on your relationship with your children and be mom be the mom that you're proud to be and that your children want to be around, right? And then she said, and you know what, you want your children to be with a beautiful human being on the other end, because half of their time is with that other family. And guess what if that woman is supporting your former partner, who then is happier and healthier, then your children are having a more thriving experience. And it clicked for me that a nobody takes your power away unless you give it. So I'm mom. And I'm going to continue to be mom and have the relationship with my children, no matter what. Number two, that this person can be an entirely important player who's going to be doing the scheduling and perhaps the doctors in the late nights when the temperatures are high. And the more that we can be a team and a village together, the more it benefits the children and benefits me having access to my children more. Now, when you talk about straight custody in terms of 5050 We'll say if you want more access and time with your children, you lean in with consistency and positivity to this new blended family situation so that you all have access free flowing regardless of schedules. And the other thing that happened for me, as I was welcoming this human, I realised that she is just as scared as I am, and in fact, has more reason to be so much more fearful of this experience than I do, because she's not mom. And so all of a sudden, with compassion, I just received this human being in a whole other way. And I remember actually the day it was, we were at a dance recital for the first time all of us together, and I was keeping my boundaries locked down, and I got it all under control. And she came up to me and just asked me if she packed the diaper bag properly. And I just thought, oh my gosh, you're holding my children. And the diaper bag is not for her.

Kristen
Yeah, that's powerful.

Kristen
It see it in your eyes. I know.

Kristen
Because you saw that she cared, she cared. And that meant a lot. They aren't her kids. I mean reality, they're like blood wise, there are kids. And when you work through that threat response, like that threat of I'm going to be replaced. That actually allows you to be the parent you want to be because if they come home and you're interrogating them, like what did you do? What did she say what happened there, you push a way that relationship creates a block and the connection of the relationship because it becomes interrogation rather than a support encouragement, and you lose sight that the kids have their own feelings about that, too. They have their own experience, they have their own feelings. And if you can hold space for them, without your staff, and that takes so much work, I'm making it sound easy. There's so much there to you acknowledging their process. That's the role in my opinion, when there's a divorce, working on our own feelings. So then you can be there for them. I have their own experience and their own feelings about it. You're having your own, they're having their own How do you work through your so you can be there for there's

Alicia
right, I love that you brought that up. Because just through my experience at this point, I have a sense that children are likely three years behind in their grieving process if I had to put a number to it, and their children who are powerless to do anything with this situation. And as it this hard for us as adults who have power and control and access to resources and tools and peer groups that God mean all of the things. And our children have none of that. And so I just love that you said that. Because I do believe that we tend to race through Oh, there we go. Here's what we're going to do. This is the new family and we're moving on when it could come up for so many years in no time for life ways. Right? It's trauma for them too. And I love that you also said that's a big thing for me in that we never triangulate amongst homes. Even if my children come back with something that is feedback, we have to understand there's three sides to every story, and likely they're coming back with a lot lot of emotional stuff, which is important. So it's important to validate them. But it's important to allow them to work through whatever the matters to them in a way that serves them. And in a way that we can help them. With coping strategies, we can help them with tools or resources, we can help to support them. I feel like sometimes, because of all the emotional stuff that's happening here, it's so much easier to get into the opinions and judgments. But really, if your former partner is the caregiver, then that means it's no different almost then the babysitter who shows up or the teacher or the coach or the friends that they're going to have, these are life experiences, where they're going to have to be equipped to advocate for themselves, to know what their values are, and to know what is a good fit for them and a good experience for themselves and how they drop in and come out. So I just think that there's so much opportunity for our kids to learn so many great skills through this. Not to mention before this in my case, they saw a depleted mom, who was selfless and the doormat and didn't have values despite the fact the effort that she was doing that high functioning codependence that I was that they get to experience this whole other healthy, healed mom who and that in turn means that they have access to better modelling for their own choices in their life.

Kristen
I think that's the key right there. Because this experience, like being a child of divorce, I'm grateful like, it has made me who I am, it has motivated me to do my own work and have compassion, more empathy with all of it wouldn't change it. And I think you just saying one of the things that I've shared many times on the podcast is the mom I had before the divorce died, she was actually Metaphorically speaking, she was very nurturing. She was very loving. And then I got a different mom. And so you saying I now betterbirth? This what I ask clients, are you going to be a better version of you divorced? And a lot of them say, Yeah, I am, I'm going to be a better version of me. I said, that's the key. See, that's the key, it's doing that work. And that like you become more of yourself, you become more authentic, you become more centred. Now, mind you, we're humans, we're gonna have there's ups and downs. So I'm not painting this, oh, you're this perfect person. Because you're not there's you have your own grief and your own fears and your own issues that come up. And this sense that you can be the better version of yourself. That's where we're going, can you and maybe in the moment you feel like you can't get some people don't have the person on the other, the partner that was healthy enough to be able to co parent well together. And I say, I know you can't manage him or her, you can work on you. That's the power. So despite how they're handling themselves, you still get the power to show up for your children. Show up for yourself. Listen, acknowledge their feelings, offer empathy, don't put your stuff on them. Don't make them the parental FIDE child to take care of you. That's really where divorce can cause major generational trauma is where the child then is caretaking the parent majority of the time, and the parent is unable to care take the child emotionally. That's where we can see lots of trauma come in generationally in my, from what I've seen in my work and research shows.

Alicia
Yeah, I think and even what I just said in terms of supporting the children not to triangulate and so on in keeping in mind, yes, children are powerless, right? They go back and forth between these homes, and there really, truly is only so much that we can support them with and recognising that it is still their journey. Are we going to absolve them from this hurt from this pain from the trauma we are not. And oftentimes I have clients that come to me and my children going to be okay. Yes, they want to go through this experience. Don't we kind of forget that. Whether you were in a partnership or not, those are still not assurances you have

Kristen
that your kids are going to be okay, because I'm gonna mess up my kids no matter what. They're gonna have stuff. That's right. They're going to have issues. It's their journey. They have multiple factors going on beyond just parenting even.

Alicia
Yeah, we're not gonna be able to control the choices they make, or the opinions and the perspectives that they have of us. You know, that's another thing that we talked about is this expectation. twofold. Oftentimes the kids will come back with something that they're upset about. I remember my daughter was a birthday of hers. Oh, would you wish for you on your birthday candles up a million upon a million wishes I wish that you and Daddy were together just right to the heart Sucker Punch the mom guilt is really kind of come up and I was right away going to be on the defensive and just receiving her Okay, fall practice what you preach Alicia, just lean in with curiosity. Validate sweetie, I can see that that really hurts. You read and I'm just my therapist voices in the back. I don't want to say these things. And so sure enough, I asked her well, isn't it as simple as you know, Mom, it's just really inconvenient to have to go back and forth between two homes. And that as little as it was. And now we could solve okay, how can we make this easier? What really is the pain point? Is there a way that we can come up with a strategy? And guess what? She's got the answer for that, too, that if I had just been so unavailable, to just listen, that could have become so much of everything that it didn't need to

Kristen
be. Yeah, and that you had the awareness to kind of come back centre and go, Okay, mirror, validate, acknowledge emotions, take a deep breath can attend to your self. And that moment, as well as an and and both. That's the key.

Alicia
And I love that in terms of having these really practical strategies, right? Just say, no reacting, we're going to respond, here's how we're going to respond, right? The deep breath and can't do these things. We're talking about knowing that I have other outlets that I can go to after this, my child only has me. And in this moment, I need to be available for her. So

Kristen
even in just parenting one on one in general, this time went so fast. What are three things that you would say are key when navigating a separation or divorce? And then how can people find you if they're interested in learning more?

Alicia
Thank you for asking me this question. Three things I will say number one is self care. And self care. Yes, is about the healing. But I truly believe accessible self care, where you choose to prioritise yourself, perhaps for the first time in a long time is about self worth. And as we build our self worth, our energy elevates our confidence does for me, to this day is the game changer that allows me to show up first for myself, and then into my world, and an opportunity to have sustainable positivity and happiness. Number two, I would say mindset and mindset isn't just about telling yourself what to believe, but actually practising mindfulness as a way to build a mental horsepower, in that whatever comes up for me, I do have the power over my feelings to get into my thinking brain to be able to make a decision that matters most for me, or that will serve me best in this space. And I'm going to say number three is support and community. I think that more than ever, we have opportunity to receive accessible, affordable support, if we know what it is that we need, and to be able to surround ourselves that accountability to surround ourselves with the community and the support that matters most to our journey for who we want to be and where we want to go.

Kristen
Fantastic. How can people find you, Alicia that are interested in learning more.

Alicia
I'd love to connect my jam is Instagram at lemonade life coach, I love to connect over email connect at lemonade life.ca. And the website is lemonade. life.ca.

Kristen
Fantastic.

Kristen
Thank you so much. This has been such a wonderful conversation. And it's a subject that I hope we can continue to have more conversation about because people feel so alone. I mean, we know 50% of marriages end in more relationships end than that statistic. So we've all been through a breakup. We've all been through heartbreak. So thank you for the work you're doing in the world. And I'm grateful for our time together.

Alicia
Thank you I'm so appreciative of you, I will add on and 65% of second marriages involve children. And this is why this conversation matters so much. So I thank you for holding this for you.

Kristen
Thank you. It's such an important piece to explore. So thank you so much, and I appreciate your heart.

Kristen
Thank you so much for listening to the close the chapter podcast. My hope is that you took home some actionable steps, along with motivation, inspiration and hope for making sustainable change in your life. If you enjoyed this episode, click the subscribe button to be sure to get the updated episodes every week and share with a friend or a family member. And for more information about how to get connected visit Kristen k r i s t e n d Boice boice.com. Thanks and have a great day.